PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

With the new VIP Program coming out, I got a look at tenative rewards and points for those rewards and how the structure was going to work a couple months ago. I thought it was a great idea and with the lack of RB at Party, I was seriously considering moving my play to PS exclusively.

I've only played a small handful at Stars just to see what all the fuss was about. I never really knew how FPP's were earned. Today, I looked it up and here's what I saw for cash games :

One (1) Frequent Player Point (FPP) is awarded for playing a hand in which the rake reaches:

$0.50 for fixed limit poker games with stakes $0.50/$1.00 and lower

$0.75 for fixed limit poker games with stakes $1/$2

$1.00 for
pot limit poker games
no limit poker games
fixed limit poker games with stakes $2/$4 and higher

Okay, I have no real numbers to back up a claim here so maybe someone can confirm or deny them for me. Aren't PL/NL players really taking it in the ass here?

I did a quick lookover of 1006 raked hands played on party at $100NL. Of those 1006 raked hands, I have a total of 291 hands that were raked at least $1. This seems really bad for someone who wants to stockpile FPP's for the VIP program.

You need 10,000 FPP's to stay atop the monthly VIP program. That would mean for me playing .5/1 NL, I'd roughly have to play 43,195 hands per month.

I don't have numbers to look at the limit play, but this looks like I, personally would be quite screwed. Agree/disagree?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need 10,000 FPP's to stay atop the monthly VIP program.

[/ QUOTE ] ]

have i missed something?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You need 10,000 FPP's to stay atop the monthly VIP program.

[/ QUOTE ] ]

have i missed something?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, I saw the tenative plans for the VIP program and there is now an active page on PS for their VIP program. I'm not at liberty to post it, but I'm sure it'll make its way to 2+2 very soon.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.pokerstars.com/vip/main.html

[/ QUOTE ]

^ There you go Ty

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

What took you so long...

Oh and enjoy!

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Shame the FPP store isn't updated yet

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What took you so long...

Oh and enjoy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone want to do a cut and paste or screenshot, i need some holiday cheer at work.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Please note, your VIP Club membership will begin January 1, 2006, at which point you will begin earning VIP Player Points.



The PokerStars VIP club recognizes you, the dedicated poker player, and rewards you for choosing to play on the site recognized as the industry's best. PokerStars has always provided you with great games and the best tournaments. Now it offers you new rewards with the VIP Club.

The PokerStars VIP Club offers you the following benefits:
Earn Frequent Player Points (FPPs) up to 3.5 times faster.
Participate in exclusive VIP Freerolls.
At the higher levels of the VIP Club, use your FPPs to buy directly into the PokerStars Caribbean Adventure, the European Poker Tour, and the main event at the World Series of Poker.
At the higher levels of the VIP Club, use your FPPs to purchase consumer goods, including iPods, high-resolution computer monitors, travel packages, and more.

You become a PokerStars VIP the moment you start playing for real money on PokerStars. With your first raked hand, you become a BronzeStar VIP. The more you play on PokerStars, the higher your star will rise. Each level adds more exciting and innovative rewards.

Our new VIP Club is an extension of our existing Frequent Player Point pogram. We've created four new VIP Club month-by-month tiers: BronzeStar, SilverStar, GoldStar, PlatinumStar, and our super-elite annual tier: Supernova

Your VIP Club star level is based on your monthly PokerStars real money play. At the heart of the new program are VIP Player Points (VPP)1. You earn one VPP every time you earn a Frequent Player Point (FPP) playing in a real money ring game or tournament. Players will start accruing VPPs on January 1st, 2006.




Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum Stars


You achieve BronzeStar, SilverStar, GoldStar and PlatinumStar tiers by earning a certain number of VPPs during a single month. As you play on PokerStars, you will earn both FPPs and VPPs. Your FPPs are yours to spend as you please in our FPP store or to enter special FPP freerolls. VPPs are how you track your VIP status; they can not be redeemed and have no other value.

Your monthly VPP counter resets at the beginning of each month. To achieve (or maintain) a certain tier in the VIP Club, you must earn the required VPPs during that month. Once you reach a VIP tier you instantly receive everything that tier has to offer for the remainder of the month, and for the month following it.




Supernova VIP


Beyond the monthly tiers (Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum) lies our super-elite Supernova tier. Any player who earns 100,000 VPPs from January 1st through December 31st of a single calendar year will become a Supernova VIP.

Supernova status supersedes any monthly tier level. Once you become a Supernova VIP, you receive all the benefits of Silver, Gold and PlatinumStars as well as added benefits reserved only for Supernova VIPs.




VPP Requirement Summary
Tier VPPs Required Qualification Period
BronzeStar N/A N/A
SilverStar 1,500 Monthly
GoldStar 4,000 Monthly
PlatinumStar 10,000 Monthly
Supernova 100,000 Yearly

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I couldn't figure this out from that link, but here's a quick question:

If you earn the 1500 VPPs in just a few days to get to silver status, do you immediately start earning the extra 50% in FPPs, or does that not go into effect until the following month?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't figure this out from that link, but here's a quick question:

If you earn the 1500 VPPs in just a few days to get to silver status, do you immediately start earning the extra 50% in FPPs, or does that not go into effect until the following month?

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I understand, once you earn that level for the month, you immediately get those benefits untill you lose that status.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

wow, only 3,000,000 FPP's for the porsche?

i'm IN!

now where's that deposit bonus at... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
now where's that deposit bonus at... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I was thinking. We need a big bonus to celebrate the introduction of the VIP club [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Shame the FPP store isn't updated yet

[/ QUOTE ]

If you click on the little images of cards you go to a page that describe each level of VIP. From there you can link the merchandise available to that level of player. They have some nice stuff. Too bad I will never get any of it.

The monthly qualification makes it pretty unlikely that I would be able to get to and stay at the higher levels.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]


As far as I understand, once you earn that level for the month, you immediately get those benefits untill you lose that status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct

Example: Between November 1, 2006 and November 13, 2006 you earn 10,000 VPPs. You are now a PlatinumStar VIP and instantly can take advantage of all the PlatinumStar perks. You will remain a PlatinumStar through November and December. The VPP counter in your Cashier lobby will reset on December 1; you then have until December 31st to earn 10,000 VPPs and maintain your PlatinumStar status.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I'm not going to comment on anything directly related to the VIP stuff now (until it's officially launched), but I used to earn 500 FPP per day 5 tabling $100 NL, which would've got me to platinum pretty quickly.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

How many hours per day though? I don't want to sit at my computer, four tabling all day long. Of course, I only have 2000 FPPs in my account now, and only play 1/2 LHE. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

My first impression is that this is a good program for fixed limit players from 1/2 to 5/10 due to the FPP-structure and moderately good for 10/20 and up. Right?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

It takes 3,000,000 FPPs to get a Porsche Cayman S, which retails for $60,000. It costs $600,000 in tournament entries to get 3,000,000 FPPs equating to 10% rakeback. However, the VIP program accelerates your acruement of FPPs. If you are a Gold Star member you get the equivalent of 20% rakeback, Platinum Star member 25%, Supernova 35%.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
How many hours per day though? I don't want to sit at my computer, four tabling all day long. Of course, I only have 2000 FPPs in my account now, and only play 1/2 LHE. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you move up to 2/4 the FPPs stack up a lot faster.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

buh bye party poker.

Now if only I could get stars to change my screen name so everyone cant see how bad I suck :/

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

A lot faster? Any idea how much, because I am almost at 300 BBs for 2/4 and will hopefully make it there by mid to late January. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Starting at the bronze level on 1/1/06 you would need to play:

1500 raked hands ($300 in tourney fees) to make the silver level

You get the silver level benefits immediately including the FPP bonus. You need 2500 more FPP to get the gold level but you get a 50% bonus so this means 1,666.67 raked hands ($333.33 tourney fees) for a total of 3,166.67 raked hands ($633.33 tourney fees).

This gives you the gold level which comes with a 100% FPP bonus. You need an additional 6000 points to make the platinum level so that would be 3000 raked hands ($600 tourney fees) or totals of 6166.67 raked hands ($1233.33 tourney fees).

From zero to platinum takes 6,167 raked hands or $1234 in tourney fees.

Once you’re at the platinum level, you get a 150% FPP bonus so maintaining platinum status would require just 4000 raked hands.

The math:

1500 raked hands with no bonus = 1500 FPP
+ 1667 raked hands with 50% bonus = 4000.5 FPP
+ 3000 raked hands with 100% bonus = 10000.5 FPP

4000 raked hands with 150% bonus = 4000 * 2.5 = 10,000

Note, this is for the pot limit, no limit, and 2/4 and higher limit

Someone check my math with ya?

It seems like attaining and maintaining platinum status wouldn't be all that difficult if you were doing it professionally.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It takes 3,000,000 FPPs to get a Porsche Cayman S, which retails for $60,000. It costs $600,000 in tournament entries to get 3,000,000 FPPs equating to 10% rakeback. However, the VIP program accelerates your acruement of FPPs. If you are a Gold Star member you get the equivalent of 20% rakeback, Platinum Star member 25%, Supernova 35%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the Porsche is more of a "look what you can win" wow type thing than a realistic goal.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

As a little note (I didn't see it anywhere on the site), the tenative plan I saw was basic FPP's for high price items, and did not include the bonus FPP's earned. Not sure if this is what they finally agreed to do or not though.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

you dont get bonus vpp's only fpps

Q. What is a VIP Player Point?

A. Every time you earn a Frequent Player Point (FPP) by playing in a cash game or tournament, you earn a VPP. Note that bonus FPPs, such as those accrued through elite status, do not qualify for VPPs. Specifically, the following do not accrue VPPs:

1. You play (and win) a 1,000 FPP satellite that awards a seat into a 10,000 FPP satellite. You choose to unregister from that larger satellite and take the 10,000 FPPs. They do not accrue VPPs.

2. Bonus FPPs that you accrued through the VIP FPP program. For instance, suppose you are a SilverStar VIP. SilverStar members receive a weekly 50% FPP bonus. So if you earn 400 FPPs in a week, we give you 200 bonus FPPs. Each of the 400 FPPs that you earn gets you a VPP; the 200 bonus FPPs we give you do not.

3. FPPs that we may give you for completing surveys, etc.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Crap, I spoke too soon.

The bonus FPP points don't count towards advancing your status. That blows.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Not at all difficult to obtain if you play fulltime, I have looked into Pokertracker, % of hands raked, how much I play etc. and would gather appx. 25,000 FPPs pr month. Half a month to get to Platinum and only 4 months to get to Supernova. But the FPP-structure means I would get almost the same reward for playing 5/10 as 15/30 or even 100/200. It rewards quantity, not playing at higher limit. If they could increase it to 2FPPs per hand raked at $3 from 15/30 and up it would be nice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (come on, Lee, it will make me change [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) .

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not at all difficult to obtain if you play fulltime, I have looked into Pokertracker, % of hands raked, how much I play etc. and would gather appx. 25,000 FPPs pr month. Half a month to get to Platinum and only 4 months to get to Supernova. But the FPP-structure means I would get almost the same reward for playing 5/10 as 15/30 or even 100/200. It rewards quantity, not playing at higher limit. If they could increase it to 2FPPs per hand raked at $3 from 15/30 and up it would be nice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (come on, Lee, it will make me change [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) .

[/ QUOTE ]
$3 rake is $3 rake, why would they care what you limit you play?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

FREE 2001FP!!!!!! THIS MAY TAKE A LOT OF PLAYING... OH WELL!

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not at all difficult to obtain if you play fulltime, I have looked into Pokertracker, % of hands raked, how much I play etc. and would gather appx. 25,000 FPPs pr month. Half a month to get to Platinum and only 4 months to get to Supernova. But the FPP-structure means I would get almost the same reward for playing 5/10 as 15/30 or even 100/200. It rewards quantity, not playing at higher limit. If they could increase it to 2FPPs per hand raked at $3 from 15/30 and up it would be nice [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] (come on, Lee, it will make me change [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) .

[/ QUOTE ]
$3 rake is $3 rake, why would they care what you limit you play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so make it $3 rake at all levels [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. My point is that at 15/30 I am better off playing elsewhere as rake reaches $3 more often and other sites rewards me extra for this. At 5/10 (or even more so on 2/4-3/6) many pots are raked $1 or $2 and then Pokerstars offer seems to be better (Pokerstars reward $1-rake pots better than anything I have seen)

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Ehh, about this 2001fp, I'd be better off bonus whoring 4 sites for $100 each, 4k hands; than trying to play 35k hands at poker stars. It's still cool they offer it, and maybe in a year I'll have 35k.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ehh, about this 2001fp, I'd be better off bonus whoring 4 sites for $100 each, 4k hands; than trying to play 35k hands at poker stars. It's still cool they offer it, and maybe in a year I'll have 35k.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you play enough tho, it doesnt take 35K raked hands to get 35K FPP points, you can earn 250% faster if you are nova.

still, its not going to be as good as a rakeback, or bonus whoring, but I think its still a pretty good deal. And im close to the point where im so fed up with party, that ill take a $$$ hit to play at a site that actually makes me feel like they value me as a player.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Crap, I spoke too soon.

The bonus FPP points don't count towards advancing your status. That blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

To bad you were wrong, we could have all driven our Porches to Vegas to use our free WSOP entries.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I like how you have to be a silver to order the moneymaker medallion now....

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

In shorthanded limit games 10/20 and up what they offer is basically 13% rakeback once you reach Supernova. Nothing to write home about.
I'm very disappointed.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

I 4table 5/10. Just doing some super quick math, it looks like the stars VIP program is worth $10/hr to me (less than that, since I can't redeem it for straight cash). Party rakeback is worth about $25/hr to me.

How much more in rake am I paying an hour at Party? Is it enough that I'm getting about the same value playing at either site?

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

Wow great stuff. This should really get ring game traffic up.

Re: PokerStars & FPP\'s, Getting Screwed?
 

yawn