Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Party $30/$60 9-handed.

My only experience with the villian in this hand is from playing shorthanded with him, he was an aggressive and fairly tough player.

Villian open raises UTG+1, folded to me in the BB w/ QQ. I 3-bet, he calls.

Flop: J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I bet, he calls.

Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Your plan....?

a) If you hold the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

b) Without the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Results later.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Check, call if he bets. Lead the river either way and fold to a raise.

I think I would take the same line regardless of holding the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and regardless of whether it came on the river.

- Jim

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the river either way

[/ QUOTE ]

There is virtually no hand that he calls with on the river that you beat.

I think it's check/call check/call, but there isn't any particularly good line in this spot.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

Hmm, tough one. Ace is certainly the most common holding for villian here. Most other possibilities would have raised the flop (like 88).

With the club I like check calling the turn for sure. If he has 88-1010 there is good chance he was folding anyway and has only 2 outs, and if you are behind you are paying 2BB to see the river if you lead with a bet.

Without the club is trickier. I thikn MOST players will raise here if they got it and fold if they dont, so bet/fold would be OK. But a really aggressive tricky opponent may see that ace as a good bluff card rather than a card that killed his hand. Also, villian can easily fold to a 3bet. So if you are the villian and you have 1010 here do you raise the turn? I'm not really sure. One thing is for sure, I would not be putting in more than 2BB for the rest of the hand. So if you lead, get rasied and call, I think you can definitely fold if he bets the river. I dont know......

I think I am leaning toward a bet/fold if you dont have teh club, sigh.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

I think we can rule out KK as very unlikely for his holding given the flop action. So the A either made his hand, he has a J or he has a lesser pair or the flush - those are the hands that will give us action.

If we're raised on the river, we have an easy fold, so we're only putting in one bet. A bet we're going to call at any rate. Most of the hands we lose to so the question in my mind is what line will elicit the most action from a lesser pair.

If you bet the river, you're line looks flat out bizaar and might elicit calls from such hands.

- Jim

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

a) Bet and call a raise.

b) Bet and fold to a raise. The ace looks just as scary to him as to you. I don't like to automatically freeze up just because an overcard hits. With the two jacks out there and the clubs, he'll let you know if the ace hit him.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

I say def check the turn cause I really doubt you have worse hands calling you down from here and if he's got a decent club he's liable to semi-bluff raise if you bet and he'll probably take a stab anyway if you don't. From there, I'd check-call the river if the 4th club misses and bet-call if it hits and I have it, check-fold if I don't.

Re: Turn question w/ QQ, Party 30/60.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm, tough one. Ace is certainly the most common holding for villian here. Most other possibilities would have raised the flop (like 88).

With the club I like check calling the turn for sure. If he has 88-1010 there is good chance he was folding anyway and has only 2 outs, and if you are behind you are paying 2BB to see the river if you lead with a bet.

Without the club is trickier. I thikn MOST players will raise here if they got it and fold if they dont, so bet/fold would be OK. But a really aggressive tricky opponent may see that ace as a good bluff card rather than a card that killed his hand. Also, villian can easily fold to a 3bet. So if you are the villian and you have 1010 here do you raise the turn? I'm not really sure. One thing is for sure, I would not be putting in more than 2BB for the rest of the hand. So if you lead, get rasied and call, I think you can definitely fold if he bets the river. I dont know......

I think I am leaning toward a bet/fold if you dont have teh club, sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]


Good thoughts here, I agree with a lot of this.

Results
 

Felt like I messed this one up bad.

I held Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],

The turn was definitely a scary card for my hand, and I really wanted to showdown against this guy but not get popped when the ace hit, so...

I checked, he checked

River: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I checked, he bet, I called and hated it.

I lost to K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

He peeled that flop with KTo no club!?

Anyway, I think leading the turn would have been the play, although it's a tough spot if you get raised, probably a fold against most players as other posters have suggested.

Holding the Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], I like a check/call line on the turn since you need to see the river, and would rather not pay two bets, plus there is a lot less risk in giving a free card.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
I lost to K T .

[/ QUOTE ]

Well at least you don't have to view him as an aggressive tough player.

SGS