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-   -   $11: JJ early game, interesting hand (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=408124)

12-31-2005 03:31 AM

$11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
No reads on Villian, except that he is from Cape Cod and I chatted with a little at the beginning of the game (I have a summer house there).

Thoughts here? I think I actually like this line. Agree/disagree?


PartyPoker, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) Converter on pregopoker.com

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
MP1 (t755)
MP2 (t1625)
MP3 (t800)
Hero (t790)
Button (t920)
SB (t755)
BB (t755)

Preflop: Hero is in CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls t15, <font color="gray">UTG+1 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP1 folds</font>, MP2 calls t15, MP3 calls t15, <font color="red">Hero raises t175</font>, <font color="gray">Button folds</font>, <font color="gray">SB folds</font>, BB calls t160, UTG calls t160, <font color="gray">MP2 folds</font>, <font color="gray">MP3 folds</font>

Flop: (t565) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t565) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">UTG bets t75</font>, Hero calls t75, <font color="gray">BB folds</font>

River: (t715) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
<font color="red">UTG bets t125</font>, Hero calls t125

12-31-2005 03:37 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
I am still pretty nubish and not 100% sure that I am qualified to give advice, but I would have bet half the pot on the flop for sure. I would have done this for two reasons.

1. It checks to see where my hand stands
2. I can take the pot down on the flop.

I if get called then I procede with extreme caution, mosty likey check/fold. But at the very least I won't be forced to make a somewhat difficult call on the river. Thats not the place to be.

12-31-2005 03:49 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
Call me crazy but I think I prefer to call preflop here. Play for set value and maybe for overpair value. I hate building a huge pot knowing that a least a couple of these yahoos will call, leaving me in an odd situation post-flop not knowing if they hit a set or an overcard. [shrug]

12-31-2005 04:03 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
Call me crazy but I think I prefer to call preflop here. Play for set value and maybe for overpair value. I hate building a huge pot knowing that a least a couple of these yahoos will call, leaving me in an odd situation post-flop not knowing if they hit a set or an overcard. [shrug]

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand your reasoning, but at the 11$ the chodes love to slow play. If you bet out they are forced to make a call at the very least will look suspisious. Just a thought though.

12-31-2005 04:06 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call me crazy but I think I prefer to call preflop here. Play for set value and maybe for overpair value. I hate building a huge pot knowing that a least a couple of these yahoos will call, leaving me in an odd situation post-flop not knowing if they hit a set or an overcard. [shrug]

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand your reasoning, but at the 11$ the chodes love to slow play. If you bet out they are forced to make a call at the very least will look suspisious. Just a thought though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suspicious? Um, no. The donks won't even think twice to call your raise here with 89s or A8o. Just because they limp and call a raise doesn't mean aces.

At any rate, how much trouble can you get in by tossing in 15 chips and seeing the flop? I like keeping the pot small and staying out of trouble in a hand like this. I'm just trying to get to level 4 with 600+ chips.

caretaker1 12-31-2005 04:11 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
Either take a small stab on the flop or don't put chips in. You've got no idea where you are when you're calling the turn and river.

12-31-2005 04:12 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
I can see uclabruinz reasoning as well as ALReturns reasoning here. Anyone think my line is comepletely off base though?

45suited 12-31-2005 04:16 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
Why such a massive raise PF? It's not like there's much out there worth taking down at that point, so one of three things is going to happen:

1) You win a very small pot pre-flop and basically waste your jacks. Yippee.

2) You get called and the flop comes with an overcard(s) and you are faced with tough flop decisions in a big pot.

3) You get called and your jacks are an overpair to the flop. You likely have the best hand, unless villian flopped a set or slowplayed an overpair.

Scenarios 1 and 2 are more likely to happen than scenario 3, and neither 1 nor 2 are particularly great.

SO, I either limp PF or I raise smaller, keep the pot manageable. I really hate the huge PF raise here.

12-31-2005 04:20 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
I disagree with a small raise here. That doesn't do anything except build the pot, which is not what I want with my JJ. I am trying to isolate with that raise. In that situation, I like either limping and playing the flop cautiously, or betting enough to isolate my hand pre-flop.

45suited 12-31-2005 04:28 AM

Re: $11: JJ early game, interesting hand
 
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree with a small raise here. That doesn't do anything except build the pot, which is not what I want with my JJ. I am trying to isolate with that raise. In that situation, I like either limping and playing the flop cautiously, or betting enough to isolate my hand pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say to make a pot sweetening raise, but you could have easily raised to ~100 and accmomplished the same thing w/o committing yourself so much to the hand. As it is now, the pot is so large and you have little maneuverability due to your stack size.


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