Am I suffering from TA?
 

Firstly, I want to state that the title of the post is in jest. I have had the pleasure of meeting and playing with Tommy, and it is difficult for me to see criticisms of a person who doesn’t push marginal edges, when I have seen the accused party 3-bet with a weak off-suit king.

Now, my hand. Two/Three Chip blinds. A crazy better(CB) open raises middle-early. I make it three with pocket Queens. There is a cold call from a late selective loose player. Selective loose means this player needs some type of hand here to call, but what he calls a hand, I don’t call a hand (say 88’s or better or any black-jack hand). Both blinds and the CB calls.

So the flop comes down KJT with two clubs. I have a club. Check, Check, Check, Check, Selective bets, and there is a host (meaning everyone) of callers. I think and muck.

Comments appreciated. I will give my justification later.

-Huh

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

"I will give my justification later."

Should be interesting. I'm looking real hard and I don't see one.

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

you figure your clubbed Q is no good if another club falls with that many callers. you also figure on the turn, seeing the river is going to cost you if you dont hit the straight right there.

is that anything like what you are thinking there? i would still call.

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

Wow. I don't see how you can lay this down. I'm surprised you didn't come out betting or check/raise. I like betting better.

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

I'm guessing the justification is that he's chopping if a non-club A or 9 falls. He might be drawing to 3 cards if someone has AQ, and all the aces might be accounted for at this point anyway. There is probably a flush draw out there, so 2 of his outs might be dead, and even if he makes his hand on the turn and it's good, there are a million ways he can get rivered.

It's pretty easy to talk yourself into a fold if you really think hard enough. Having said all that, the pot is too big to be that paranoid, you are getting 19-1 on your flop call for a hand that has between 2 and 8 outs depending on the above factors, but just assuming 4 is pretty safe, which makes this an easy call.

On the turn, if a bet comes from somewhere else and you aren't closing the action or it's 2 bets to you, then you can start worrying about how clean your outs are, but right now this paranoia is unwarranted.

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

So the flop comes down KJT with two clubs.

Which cards were clubs? I have a hard time laying this down. Did I read this correctly? Are you getting 19:1 for a smooth call from a loose player? Did you figure the A's were gone and you were drawing to second bests?

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

I thought it was distasteful for Sklansky to name a disease after a regular 2+2 poster. It's even worse that others are perpetuating it.

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I suffering from TA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you definetly are. Read some sklansky and work on your game...

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

Well of course you have 3 outs to chop. Come on, surely one of them has AQ.

I'll say that yeah, you fold too much. The problem I see with mapping this play to a Tommy play is that Tommy doesn't suck.

~D

Re: Am I suffering from TA?
 

"So the flop comes down KJT with two clubs."

I'd bet out because 1) I might be good. 2) I am drawing to the nuts. 3) Betting out is fun.