theoretical situation
 

You open on the button with K8o. SB and BB both call.

Flop is Ad5d5h

Both players check to you and you check. (lets not talk about this flop check its irrelevant, lets just assume its good.)

Turn is a Ks

1) SB bets, BB folds

What is your action? Against what players do you raise for a free showdown and against what players do you call down? Do you ever fold?

Are there players who will fold a king to a turn raise in this spot? That's why I ask if a free showdown raise has merit against certain players in these situations.

2) SB checks, BB bets

Same question

Re: theoretical situation
 

I don't think anyone normal folds a K. I generally just call down unless villian has shown some propensity to fold. A check the flop raise the turn can get a fold from me once in a while.

Krishan

Re: theoretical situation
 

1. My move against the vast majority of players leans towards raise. Your flop check will feel suspecious and calling down against either the 5 or A loses the same amount of bets. Meanwhile a player in SB with hands K9-KQ might let his hand go to your riase on turn. His likely hands (assuming a reasonable player)that beat you but he might lay down are considerably higher. I MIGHT fold if SB is known as tight straight forward player.

2. Im still leaning towards raise here but i think calling down may have more merit. In the previous problem we've already had one player exit the equation. In this one the SB is still around perhaps waiting to CR both players. Also the BB is considerably more induced to steal here and if you have a LAG you might just get him to bet the river for you.

Thoughts?

Re: theoretical situation
 

If u hit flop hard and check because u want them to hit something little, it makes no sense to try to raise and make them fold when they bet?

Would u check this flop behind if u had middle pair? Guess not?

If u were in blind defending in this hand and the other guy checked behind on flop, would u bet turn with Ks?... Why? Because u think he checked flop with, because of a freecard could hit river??

Just trying to say that as long we are not talking about deception on a high level where u try to outthink each other their turnbet doesnt look like Ks and your turnraise doesnt look like Ks, so discussing what we should do when both got Ks, well...

Where I play good players not often check behind on perfect bluffflops after raising preflop, its the (stupid) overaggressive and passive that does this, and always with a monster.

Re: theoretical situation
 

The raise is good if you think the guy will try to take it down on the turn here with diamonds and JT/QJ/QT, but won't bluff the river with those hands if you call the turn and he misses. I don't think you get a worse king to fold off enough to raise just for that reason.