Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

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Why raise this river? On the off-chance that Ax calls?

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Villain could easily have lower 2 pair as well and tried to slowplay it to the turn.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

I would bet/call the turn and fold the turn UI.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

I think the turns pretty standard. No worse hands are calling, all hands in front are c/r or calling, if I get c/r I have to call because of stupid outs.

This comes under checking with outs.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

cool, river raise is cool too IMO, i don't think this player can 3-bet this river without a Q. The turn check should be the part that is debated here. It might have been but I'm yet to read the replies.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

River check is interesting, but I don't think its close. Prove me wrong [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

OK, my brain hurts from thinking through this post. But, I've finally decided that I'm setting a rule for myself that I vow to never violate. Here's my new rule:

If I choose to raise the river for value against a single donk betting opponent, I will never fold for one additional bet no matter how grim it looks if I am getting better than 8 to 1.

There, I said it. My new rule doesn't stop me from attempting razor thin value raises, nor does it stop me from making the occasional big laydown. It does prevent me from attempting both all in the same hand. I'm just not sophisticated enough to do that, and will likely outguess myself at some point in the future. Flame away, but I feel better.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

This opponent didn't donk, and his river raise suggests only one hand, unless hes a total lag, which I dont think this guy is.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

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River check is interesting, but I don't think its close. Prove me wrong

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I never said anything about a river check. i think it was the turn i thought there could be some debate over. However, the more I think about it the more I think its a clear check

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

Sorry, I meant the turn check, of course.

Yeah, I mean I don't really see what betting accomplishes, if we're ahead hes probably folding, if we're behind the free card is good.

Re: River folds are cool atm.
 

Oops, you're right, it wasn't really a donk. OK, I'm amending my new rule:

If I choose to raise the river for value against a single betting opponent, I will never fold for one additional bet no matter how grim it looks if I am getting better than 8 to 1.

This rule is certainly more questionable than the rule you stated in a post yesterday that you don't bet / fold the river, but I still like it. If it's not neutral or slightly positive ev at the time, it will be for picking off/discouraging bluffs.