2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

Reading a lot of posts here, it seems a standard top pair line is, 'bet 2/3 pot and fold to a riase.'

This advice seems good, but doesn't anyone worry about getting pushed off hands? I think this is my biggest leak ... thinking I'm getting pushed off of a hand. Also, if you're doing this all of the time, how much is it costing you? It seems like a lot. (This also seems to be the case with say a, paired board with, say a K high flush. You bet 2/3 pot on the river, but plan to fold to a push, or whatever.)

Perhaps someone can read through this poorly worded post and come up with something insightful or at least the obvious explination I am not seeing.

Re: 2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

if your opponent is calling station, you should probably bet more to gain more value.

however, if I'm taking the pot down on the flop alot with continuation bets and raising a very wide range of hands preflop where more often than not I don't have TPTK or overpair on the flop, then 2/3 pot becomes more desirable as I don't lose as much the times that I get called and the times that my opponents don't have a hand, they are folding to a 2/3 pot bet as much as they fold to a pot sized bet.

and I'm not sure the standard is autofold to a raise. In general though, the more uncoordinated the flop and the more passive the opponent, the more you should fold to a raise.

Re: 2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

I see a bluff raise on the flop at the PP NL200 tables way more than at the PP NL100 tables. It works very well too. I've found the worst thing to do is call. For me, it's almost always either a fold or reraise decision. Before it was almost always a fold. But I've actually found that reraising wins a lot of pots right there. For example, if I raised preflop and there is $15 in the pot, and I come out for $10 on the flop. Then get raised to $20. For some reason people who are bluffing usually go for the minimum raise. At this point if I believe them, I fold. But more recently if it feels like a bluff, I'll reraise to $35-40. I've done this with nothing but Ace high if I read the guy for a bluff here. I've been very suprised how many times they lay it down here. This is just on the flop though, I give people more credit for a real hand when they do this on the turn.

Re: 2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

I guess my main question is where the line is between weak/tight and smart. (up to 100NL or 200NL)

It's likely just an experience thing, of which I have little.

One example (that I think I made the wrong decision on, but it worked out):

I have AK in late position, gets limped to me, I raise a good amount, and it gets heads up with another player.

Flop comes A high (rainbow)

Pot, is say, $10 at 50NL.

It's bet $3 to me, I raise to $10, he pushes.

I call and he has AQ, I win. These are situations that I'm worried about losing money in, by either not calling when I'm ahead, or calling when I'm crushed.

Re: 2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

the other way to play it when out of position and the board looks to have missed a raising hand --- is to just call the pre-flop raisers 2/3 pot flop bet and see turn... then bet out into him on turn for 2/3 pot... A min check-raise on the flop will often get called by a player in position -- especially if they actually flopped something (be it draw or monster)... now you will be sitting out of position with a big pot if you check-raise flop...

mixing it up is best... but all these moves can exacerbate downswings so don't overuse 'em... if you are getting cold-decked and/or playing against aggro's -- might be better to actually only do this with hand or as semi-bluff...

Re: 2/3 pot, fold to a raise - getting pushed off hands
 

It's hard to say if call was right without knowing the pot size and what he pushed for, but it probably was correct.

The reason I don't always give credit to those flop raises is because most players, usually when they have position on you, will wait for the turn to make that raise if they have a big hand. I usually do to. When you flop a big hand and someone bets into you, a lot of times by just smooth calling, you'll have a better idea of what the board looks like on the turn, and you can let them dig themselves deeper into their own grave before you raise them. Now they have a tough choice of calling with a hand like top pair since they've committed some more money to the pot.

Depending on what the board looks like and how big your hand is, this won't always be the correct play. But I think of that before I give my opponent credit for a monster when he raises me on the flop.