Playing under mind altering substances
 

Excluding alcohol, do you think you play better or worse with mind altering substances? Do you ever take some on purpose to play better? This includes caffeine.

Personally, after I smoke pot, I find I can focus much better and for longer periods of time.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I played stoned a little while ago in a NL home game and did well 'cause no one had any idea what I was doing (e.g. open-raising 63s UTG, limping KK on the button).

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

nope and nope.

Ray had a good comment on this in the NVG or Theory forum. It was in response to TSP pretty much asking the same question but for different reasons.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I've never played high but I frequently play on Adderall (amphetamine salts) and it really allows me to focus more and for longer periods of time. Also helps nullify the tilt factor for me.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Can you post a link or be a little more specific on where I could find it? I can't find it.

RED BULL BABY!
 

I used to drink a can of this now then and cuz it really got me Jonesing. I felt incredibly focused. Nowadays, a lot of the younger kids drink this stuff like friggin water.

I haven't drank it since this Dr. friend of mine told me how hard this stuff is on your liver. If he's right, there's gonna be a lot of 40 year olds with some real bad livers in the next 30 years.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Back when I went to college, I knew someone that was a straight A student. When he studied, he would always smoke pot, watch tv, and listen to the stereo. I can't do any of these things, or I would be broke. To each their own. Good Luck
Mark

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Excluding alcohol, do you think you play better or worse with mind altering substances? Do you ever take some on purpose to play better? This includes caffeine.

Personally, after I smoke pot, I find I can focus much better and for longer periods of time.

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I usually make posts as ridiculous as this when I'm drunk. The people I've played against who were stoned were anything but focused.

A long time ago I knew a guy who smoked pot from the time he woke up to the time he went to sleep and he led what appeared to be a normal life. He basically spent all of his time awake stoned. That was his normal state of mind. Guys like him are few and far between.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I smoke a fair bit of cannabis. In fact, the college experience depicted above is eerily familiar. Cannabis also helps me focus. I read a recent study suggesting that "ADHD" teens often self-medicate with cannabis for similar reasons.

Certainly, if ADHD had been a diagnosis when I was in school, I would have fit the profile.

Then again, ADHD-like symptoms appear prevalent in this community...Isn't a certain level of multi-tasking (to use a more accepted descriptor of similar phenomena) necessary to multi-table and surf the forums?

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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The people I've played against who were stoned were anything but focused.

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That's because when you play against the focused stoned guys, you don't know that they're stoned.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

does RedBull count?

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I find clonazepam can reduce my tilt factor by about 10,000%. Since that stuff is crazy addictive and bad for you I've only tried it three times, but all three times it gave me the relaxation and patience to get unstuck from brutal sessions (-30BB or worse).

I'm up lifetime on LSD (insignificant sample size).

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Public-service replay:

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The people I've played against who were stoned were anything but focused.

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That's because when you play against the focused stoned guys, you don't know that they're stoned.

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Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Smoking pot can improve focus, and reduce tilt for short periods of time, but when you come down the concentration goes completely out the window. Of course it depends on what your smoking, but if you wanna play long sessions I would advise to keep well away from the strong skunk cos it fucks you up.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

[ QUOTE ]
I smoke a fair bit of cannabis. In fact, the college experience depicted above is eerily familiar. Cannabis also helps me focus. I read a recent study suggesting that "ADHD" teens often self-medicate with cannabis for similar reasons.

Certainly, if ADHD had been a diagnosis when I was in school, I would have fit the profile.

Then again, ADHD-like symptoms appear prevalent in this community...Isn't a certain level of multi-tasking (to use a more accepted descriptor of similar phenomena) necessary to multi-table and surf porn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Any sort of stimulant is very bad for your game. This includes coffee and red bull and I'm pretty sure it would hold true for coke, meth, etc...

Downers like alcohol and prescription drugs are probably not that bad for young males with lots of testosterone. The one danger is that you will play too passively.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

[ QUOTE ]
Excluding alcohol, do you think you play better or worse with mind altering substances? Do you ever take some on purpose to play better? This includes caffeine.

Personally, after I smoke pot, I find I can focus much better and for longer periods of time.

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It's always good to admit you smoke pot publicly. But anyway, I can't function without coffee in the morning...and yeah it helps my focus, primarily by keeping me awake.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Any sort of stimulant is very bad for your game. This includes coffee and red bull ...

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I strongly disagree, but I'm a caffeine junkie. Why do you think this?

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Any sort of stimulant is very bad for your game.

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i'd totally disagree with that. adderall, etc would probably help a ton.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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does RedBull count?

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i also drink redbull while i play, and it doesn't help my game.

but again, i am helpless

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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i'd totally disagree with that. adderall, etc would probably help a ton.

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Yea if you're ADD they probably would help a ton. For me it would be a disaster.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

Most of the time people take stimulants to fight fatigue. Common affects of fatigue include irritability and anxiousness. Stimulants will make you feel less tired, but in my case at least, they amplify the irritability/anxiousness. In my experience this is a disaster for a poker player.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Yea if you're ADD they probably would help a ton. For me it would be a disaster.

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it's rampant on college campuses for studying. a friend took some last saturday to focus on cleaning his house. the entire world doesn't have ADD. there are lots of stimulants that improve focus/motivation, and adderall is one of them.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Public-service replay:

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The people I've played against who were stoned were anything but focused.

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That's because when you play against the focused stoned guys, you don't know that they're stoned.

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Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I play high all the time, and feel that it helps me win somehow, maybe I just run well high which is fine with me.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I'll have to check it out for myself.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Most of the time people take stimulants to fight fatigue. Common affects of fatigue include irritability and anxiousness. Stimulants will make you feel less tired, but in my case at least, they amplify the irritability/anxiousness. In my experience this is a disaster for a poker player.

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ive never smoked pot before so i cant tell you how it helps me focus, im very interested in this discussion however.

as for caffeine and other similiar stimulants, they are very, very bad for a poker player for the reasons that boris mentioned.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

well it's still a stimulant, needs a prescription, is probably addictive, etc. i haven't used it and wouldn't recommend it, i was just pointing out that such things exist. i knew lots of people that took it while they were in college.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

First you say it improves focus and motivation and then you say you don't recommend it. WTF? You're sending some mixed signals Mr. Glide.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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i knew lots of people that took it while they were in college.

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So, are you saying you never went to college or just hung out with a bunch of stimulant junkies while you were there? Or both?

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I have a bad back, some B&M sessions hurt worse than others, a beer or two really helps tone down my shuffling in seat and makes me feel more comfortable in general.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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ive never smoked pot before so i cant tell you how it helps me focus, im very interested in this discussion however.


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For the casual user, after smoking some chronic buds, your sensitivity to stimuli will increase, as will the speed and intensity of your thought processes. The main affects for me are a complete inability to tilt, ability to make unorthodox plays based on reads etc.

However, usually this phase dooesnt last long, maybe an hour for a pair of virgin lungs, more likely 1/2 an hour when I was toking heavy like.

After this you will start feeling generally down and tired, focus will go and you will end up staring blankly at the screen robotically clicking away, reverting likely to a weak-tight style.

Usally the only cure to this is go eat some food, take some uppers, or smoke more pot....which generally causes problems, especially when you start in the morning, as the cycle simply repeats itself, except the troughs are deeper, and the waves are lower.


However, when you start smoking regularly, ie at least twice a day, the problems just compound themselves, any improvement in concentration just disappears, after smoking your heartbeat will start racing, your head will be [censored] up with general haze and mindless paranoia. This is why I have completely quit the herbs now.

That has been my experiance with skunk, a particuarly potent form of weed. However, I've heard good things about hash cakes, they are milder and much longer lasting, as they go through the digestive system instead of from your lungs into your head.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

it does improve focus and motivation. IT IS ALSO A STIMULANT DRUG. is this really tough to grasp boris?

This drug is classified as a Schedule II controlled Substance. This means:

(A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States or a currently accepted medical use with severe restrictions.
(C) Abuse of the drug or other substances may lead to severe psychological or physical dependence

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

i didn't go to college, but i lived with and hung out with many people who used or knew people who used adderall. particularly at washington university, which is basically the midwest equivalent of harvard. very prestigious, very expensive, tons of hardcore academics. adderall is huge there.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

i've had (have) all sorts of substance abuse problems so this is something i think about a lot. as a general rule drinking alcohol knocks some brain cells out of commission and people play worse poker when drunk. the more often you drink the better you play when you're drunk, but you'll never play as good as when you're sober. as a general rule smoking pot makes people more "consequence indifferent" and thus most people play looser and worse when they're high.

for me the game seems more fun when i'm high, so i like to get involved in pots and derive more entertainment. i focus more, but that focus usually pigeonholes into just thinking about my own hand and i end up calling down more, cold calling preflop more, etc. my hand just has to be good here is something i say to myself a lot.

people respond differently to being high. i have poker pro friends who are almost always high when they play poker, but these friends are high almost all the time in general so i can't really say they play _better_ when high. it's just that being sober puts them on life tilt, so they probably don't play poker well either in that state of mind. i honestly don't see how a person can play better when they're high but i'm not other people. nothing makes me more confident these days than being clear headed.

i would argue that being high, drunk, etc. is worse when playing limit than no limit poker. limit is about discipline and sticking to the succesful playing system that you have in place. mind altering substances weaken discipline. no limit allows for less discipline if the player is skilled, so sometimes being drunk/high can work out here.

being high or drunk is a nice state of mind to be in however, and it is fun to play poker in these states, so every player needs to evaluate the cost/benefit ratio when making decisions about what to consume and when.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I'll have to concur with the Pot comments [imporves focus]. But you can't be totally ripped other wise it some what backfires. Also I find its better online as you can keep a "sustained" high while in B+M when you crash you want to take a nap at the table or start swtiching to a stimulant [coffee,redbull etc].
As for coke, no experince but the guy's I've seen glazed over at the table always seem to be the top donators

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I can't talk about poker but I am close with many of the top bridge players in the world. Many of them smoke pot. One of them is always stoned whenever he plays. And you can tell just from speaking to him that he is quite stoned. Another top player was on cocaine through the '80s but is now clean and still playing to a WC level.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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Downers like alcohol and prescription drugs are probably not that bad for young males with lots of testosterone. The one danger is that you will play too passively.

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My general experience with people who consume alcohol while playing is not that they play too passively.

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

I'm going to go ahead and be a dork here and say I play some of my best poker after a run. Admittedly this is a remarkably small sample size but I think clearer, the beats don't get to me at all and I feel great afterwards.

Krishan

Re: Playing under mind altering substances
 

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particularly at washington university, which is basically the midwest equivalent of harvard. very prestigious, very expensive, tons of hardcore academics. adderall is huge there.

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I went to harvard, which is the east coast equivalent of harvard, and it was around there too, although I wouldn't say it was "huge". I found it helpful for when I would need to do a lot of reading. My natural reading pace is fairly slowly. I can force myself to speed through something, but I don't enjoy it and can't do it for very long in a sitting without getting bored, so I have trouble reading a novel quickly. But after taking a little adderal, I was able to sit down and focus and quickly read through Jacques the Fatalist before I had a midterm and not only that, but I greatly enjoyed the book. Adderall also made me much much more talkative and social the few times I tried it.