Some of these guys are your opponents
 

Check out these comments on AA while I was browsing cardplayer.com


All hold em hands, should be considered just another starting hand.

Even AA, will lose one fifth of the time, when hot and cold against another pair.

Actually they do get cracked about half the time.

In online low limit holdem AA is nothing more than an above average starting hand. When playing AA in low limit holdem your post-flop philosophy should still be "fit-or-fold".

Having a big pocket pair like AA, KK or QQ are great starting hands, but will be beaten if there are many other callers.

you need to consider the hands you do play (except AA) as JUST a starting hand and not put any more value into it. Once you learn that lesson, you save lots of money.

I agree with you totaly.
AA is also nothing but a starting hand, just as every other starting hand.

Well AA i wouldn't say you HAVE to raise people out although it would be recommended. Smooth-calling does have it's place.

I would say that if I lose one fifth of the time with AA, I would be happy about it. That´s great odds.

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

Some dude called a raise and reraise in the big blind last night w/ 64o and his reasoning was truly amazing. At one point he said:

What you fail to realize is that with all the raises and calling that a lot of the big cards were out in people's hands and I am more likely to hit the flop.

Of course he made trip 6s on the river to rake in a huge pot and one guy was giving him hell. It was a very funny read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

they don't get cracked half the time, they get cracked a little over 20% of the time. people UNDERESTIMATE the impact of aces on their overall win rate, but have too many expectations regarding the play of any given hand. whoever wrote that stuff is stupid.

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

More......

Give me 45s 56s, 67s or 78s when we are seeing the flop with 4 or 5 players. I figure most of them have the big cards and pocket pairs. Then watch em cry when my straight busts em out!!!

My co-worker says that he does not like having AA in the hole because there are too many ways to have them cracked.

AAs are definately great but there is 5 more cards to come.
i like AKs too, more options.. (realistic options)
AA limits you to pair, two pair, full house, 4 of a kind.
AK you can get, a pair, two pair, full house, flush, straight, royal flush.

Sometimes I play AA the same way I would 66 or 77. In other words limp in an early position (hoping for the raise of course). Then its a whole lot easier to lay it down (similiar to AK). Who knows what the best way to play AA is? My humble opinion is to play em differently and not get married to em (or any hand for that matter).

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

Prevailing theories of many people that I play with in cleve (especially the 5-10ers):

I never raise AK because it a)never hits for me b) is a drawing hand.
I never raise KK because an A always comes
I never raise AA because it always loses for me.




People are stupid. Stupidity is the largest force in the world - Vassilis Panaskaltis (my professor after the class average on a test was 30%)

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

[ QUOTE ]
they don't get cracked half the time, they get cracked a little over 20% of the time. people UNDERESTIMATE the impact of aces on their overall win rate, but have too many expectations regarding the play of any given hand. whoever wrote that stuff is stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Astro, this is a rare instance in which you are wrong.

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

In a tourney last night I got AA in the BB.

We were down to 139 players from the original 376 and the blinds were 50/100

1 caller, 1 raised, one called the raise. I was slightly below average but moving well so I moved all-in figuring either to match up against AK, a lower pair or just grab the pot. Everyone folded but the SB who called w 9 8s.

The 9 paired on the flop and the 8 at the river thus killing 90 mins of decent tourney play.

I didn't go Helmuth or anything but I did wish the caller a short and dissapointing tourney.

Was I wrong to go all-in there? I've also heard some Tv comment that AA wins about 60% of the time from before the flop. How does one get a figure like that?

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

[ QUOTE ]
What you fail to realize is that with all the raises and calling that a lot of the big cards were out in people's hands and I am more likely to hit the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


There is actually SOME validity to this imo....but not enough to justify varying one's actions.

If the table had been reasonably normal (not ultra-loose) and you can actually read your opponents as being unlikely to cold-call unless they had high-cards then it is possible that he is very slightly more likely to hit a flop to his liking.
So slight is this possible 'advantage' (this word really doesn't apply here) that it pretty much doesn't matter.

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

how am i wrong?

Re: Some of these guys are your opponents
 

[ QUOTE ]
how am i wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

The percentage of the time that AA will be cracked depends heavily on the characteristics of the game you are in, and no arbitrary fixed number can be ascribed to it.