Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Ok. For the longest time, I always envisioned playing online with my fellow 2+2ers and crushing the game, making a few extra bucks on the side. I played homegames for the longest time (few years), crushing it with ease. Too bad internet poker is far, far different.

Phase past the fantasy- I've been getting raped online. A quick background on my online playing-

My friend played PP a while back, lost his inital deposit, and 2 weeks ago, found $20 back in his account. Me and him both played it, running well, and running the $20 into $440 within the first few days. Wow, I thought I was God. This internet poker stuff is pretty easy, even easier than homegames. We divided the bank and kept track of our wins/losses.

Fastfoward a few days. My friend, not a student of the game, lost some money, then tilted, putting his last $50 on black jack party. He lost it all, leaving me $280, and the rest of the account. Obviously this may cause some problems cashing out, moving money through netteller, so I planned on just playing at party until I can get my own netteller/PP account (I think I told you guys this earlier).

Well, this has not been a breeze. Due to the money situation, I cannot get PT until I get my own netteller. The lack of reads I get, plus a nasty run of cards is killing me.

I'm down to my last $100, having lost quite a few buyins over the past few days. I think I'm both getting hit by the deck and playing poorly.

I plan on talking to my parents regarding internet poker/netteller, etc over break, and hope to get my own account. I plan on (parent willing) depositing $500 into party to get a bonus (or maybe you guys can recommend me something else, I'll post when and if I can start my own [censored]).

This is brutal, and in general, today has been brutal. I've lost 4 buyins today, my most in one day. Moving to the NL10 is tough for now, because I cannot access the funds. So I suppose I am going to stick with party. I have been 2 tabling 10 full, buying in shorter to prevent difficult turn/river decisions, to no avail.

I'm guessing I will be told "take a few days break, etc", but are there any more tidbits of advice you guys can help me with? I'm dieing here.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Orange,
I too am getting raped online. I started out real hot, built my BR too 1000, went to 50NL, got hurt, and am down to 640ish. I too feel your pain. I would definitely suggest a break, and then if you want send me some of your hands and ill look at them im my PT for you so you have some idea of your stats and can look for leaks. You are an excellent player and know the game very well, but obviously something is not right and I wish to help you get back to the good life. YOu have excellent potential and I want to help you succeed, and maybe all you need is a fresh start and a new look on things, which is what im trying to offer you.
After careful thought, I realized that I need to relearn the game, or even initally learn it, as something is not right. Why all of a sudden was a losing terribly with something I once dominated. Over mid-semister break I have decided to re-learn, and if you wanna do it together, Im offering to go along with you.

PM me if interested.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[deleted]

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Maybe try Ed Miller's short stack strategy in the NL25 games? While the strategy isn't exactly a goldmine it's a good way to get some expereince and (generally speaking) it's a good way to build your bankroll (albeit slowly). Even with $100 you have enough to play the NL25's using this strategy (it's pretty unlikely you'd go broke with a 20 buy-in short stack bankroll, although don't quote me on that). Until you have an opportunity to fully fund your (own) account it might be your best option.

J

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

damn dude the nl $25's on party are a joke. in all seriousness, (and this assumes you are actually pretty good at poker), just get a new credit card, take out a cash advance, make a bunch of money, and pay off the card. that way you can both build your credit and your roll. just make sure to pay off the balance asap, i know what a bitch credit cards can be

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Take a break to evaluate your game, not just to sit around doing nothing. Post more hands, use good bankroll management, and do not tilt, etc.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
damn dude the nl $25's on party are a joke. in all seriousness, (and this assumes you are actually pretty good at poker), just get a new credit card, take out a cash advance, make a bunch of money, and pay off the card. that way you can both build your credit and your roll. just make sure to pay off the balance asap, i know what a bitch credit cards can be

[/ QUOTE ]

I have enough money to deposit. It just depends on the approval of the parents. If you guys havent read the original thread, here it is. This was posted a while back.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

yea online poker is not good for the gpa. high school 3.8
collge: 2.1
that being said. I jsut went on a bad downswing took a week off during thanksgiving and redopisited it. Got my confidence back, concentrated on playing 6max and have been running hot at 25ptbb for 8K hands. You seem to have a good understanding of the game from your posts so i would encourage you to play 6max if you arent already. It is more similar to live games as far as action and loosesness. Concentrate on playing 1-2 tables of 6max and i thik you will be on your way. Whatever you do, don't play scared. If you need any HH reviewed or anything just PM and i would be glad to help out.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

my advice to u would be this orange. 1)take a few days off, 2)tighten up even more than u already play (it will be more boring, but allow u to pay better attention to reads and get used to the game),3)start playing 6max when u have a proper roll, as these games are lovely.

if u would like, i would be more than happy to review some hh for u. it might help to have an ultra nit review your hands...

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

I think it might be harder for a live game player to jump into the internet game than just starting at the internet game.
I think the differences between the games are pretty big. On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up. Also you get tons of reads and really get to know how the villians play, not to mention live games are notorious for donks.

I think it is possible to pick up lines that might work well in a home game and much less so on the internet. Just a thought, but you might be better leaving a lot of the things that have worked for you in home games behind, and kind of start fresh.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

saw this coming from your falling confidence I've noticed in your posts recently. Part of your problem is playing with no reads. 2 tabling you should be able to develop some:
Take notes on any semi-interesting hand you see shown down. I played ABC on paradise with no PT a while ago 3 tabling full and I played better due to the detailed notes I felt I was forced to make.

If you still can't get reads reduce to one table.

The biggest part of the learning curve for you will be that you have to become accustomed to all the different styles of play online vs the probably limited stuff you've seen in your home games.

I've looked at some of your posts, you've gotten into some crappy spots but didn't look like too much you can do.

For now, pass up marginal EV situations. Play weaktight, you are on a very limited role. Now is NOT the time to be taking coinflips or playing draws super aggressively. Variance can eat away short roles.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

I would cash it out and wait until you have everything set up the way you want before playing again. Get pokertracker, get Neteller set up, get GT+, and then start from there. I like playing when there is nothing else to worry about.

Once you get everything set up, definitely start out on Party with a 500 deposit and claim their bonus. At the lowest stakes, bonus whoring is essential because it gives the biggest percentage increase to your hourly rate. Someone with an $8-10 hourly rate can practically double their hourly rate with bonus whoring at NL 25. Also, definitely play 6 max. The fact that you post at this site and have demonstrated that you have a thorough understanding of the game assures me that you will have no problem beating NL 25 6 max. Players make far too many mistakes for you not to make money.

I would recommend buying in short for your first 500 hands or so. It gets you use to seeing certain situations and doesn't really give you an opportunity to make a costly mistake. You will learn that anytime you have top pair beat at NL 25 and your opponent has top pair, you will get it all in as the favorite. I would recommend playing 1 table for your first 500-1000 hands also. I just think its good for hand reading, and getting used to online in general.

I'm also a college freshman and my parents had reservations about me playing poker in college, but its not a big deal. If I didn't play poker, I would just find some other way to waste my time. Early in the semester, I wasn't doing great in school, so I took a week off of poker. I spent the exact same amount of time on my homework. Instead of playing poker, I played Halo, or watched Sportscenter. I ended up doing alot better in school and learned my performance in school was independent of poker. The reason I wasn't doing that great was probably that it takes a little bit of time to adjust to college from high school, to get used to the exams and such.

If you need anymore advice from a college freshman who also started out about a year ago getting raped online, feel free to PM me.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

How many tables do you play? I often play on my laptop with no PT and 2 table 6max, and can get a handle on the action at the tables pretty quickly. Only when feeling very good do I open a third on my laptop. I know others like TWP do more tables with no PT but I feel like with 2 tables and just diligent note taking I get a good handle on the players at my tables. So while PT is great for adding more tables it is certainly possible to win without it. I also suggest reducing the number of tables to 2 or 1 if you can handle it.

And you seem solid from your posts but if you're willing to buy in short to avoid turn/river decisions, then a review of all streets may be necessary. For example starting with PF, are you calling raises with easily dominated hands which lead to difficult flop decisions with TPDK? Are you following the 5/10 rule for PP's looking for sets?

Good luck with your journey, and you can build up from $100 if needed, it will just take longer than starting from $500.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, definitely play 6 max. The fact that you post at this site and have demonstrated that you have a thorough understanding of the game assures me that you will have no problem beating NL 25 6 max. Players make far too many mistakes for you not to make money.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 6 max is full of action junkies but ... also full of harder decisions. 6 max can be way more profitable than full ring but ... I dont recomend for people on a downswing as variance is higher, full ring games are "safer". Overally nice post though.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

To clarify, I play 2 tables of 10 full on party 25NL, and to be honest, I really need help concentrating on focusing on tables. Because of my short roll, I am buying in shorter, tightening up. I thought that set mining tactics would work, so oftentimes, I surf 2+2, chat, etc, where I should be studying the tables.

6-max is not a good idea for me right now I think. I opened a 6-max table today and the swings were far greater than a 10 full table. I really need to get the hang of this internet thing though.

I feel that I have a fairly good grasp of PF/postflop play, necessary for beating the 25NL at least. I think I've been getting hit by the deck lately, but its rough because my small roll can't take these hits.

Thanks for comments. My confidence is being blown out of the water, like a sinking ship. Maybe I should take a break or something.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

aces_dad: is that a wheaten terrier pup? i have one myself and they're great dogs..but they will act like pups their entire lives!

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed to be a good player. I think I have the necessary skills in order to beat the 25NL, though. I agree on the lack of attention span- although its tough, I think I have ADD.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Personally, I would rather single table a 6max game than play 2 full tables (especially since you don't have PT). Playing one table allows you to focus more, make reads, etc.. Pay attention and I think you will be fine. Downswings suck, but they definitely happen. Losing 4 buyins in a day may hurt, but it happens to all of us. Make sure you are properly rolled to avoid going broke. GL.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

It's actually a border terrier, now 2 years old ... named Ace, hence my handle. He's calming down around the house now but as a terrier will always be full of, meh, life. Very much people dogs though.

Hey isn't this a poker forum? Fold PF. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have answered your own questions. You have a short bankroll, don't pay attention while playing, have no confidence. I'm going to say you're not as good as you think you are based on the info above and the fact you probably got hit by the deck when you went on your initial run. Take a break, study, increase BR and try it again with discipline.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed to be a good player. I think I have the necessary skills in order to beat the 25NL, though. I agree on the lack of attention span- although its tough, I think I have ADD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Orange,

I've read and responded to a good number of your posts. You certainly have the skill to beat 25NL+.

6That said, you have to concentrate, be disciplined at the table, and employ proper bankroll management.

You want confidence, here it is: your thinking about the game is better than 97% of your opponents at 25NL.

Have confidence, play well.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

If you play weak tight you will be able to beat both 25NL and 50NL and probably 100NL on Party(if the present conditions remain). The rocks are totally obvious and are too weak tight. The only hard decisions you will have are with the fish. If you have JJ or QQ or even KK(with a super rock)give it up for a big reraise they will have KK or better pre flop. Superfish (agrressive bad players) it's more read specific. Don't try and out play the rocks till you have your game down pat and you will beat these levels........ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

If you don't have the roll for 25Nl go to sites with 10Nl or even 5 and build your roll there. The quality of player will be roughly the same with variance being less of a factor......

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't have the roll for 25Nl go to sites with 10Nl or even 5 and build your roll there. The quality of player will be roughly the same with variance being less of a factor......

[/ QUOTE ]

Cannot go to other sites do to money situation atm. Hopefully I can start up soon though.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

I feel your pain orange, I'm on a 200bb downswing as we speak, in a bad financial situation playing on a friends account, mine did exactly what yours did, lost his whole roll and 1/4 of mine. Take a little time to think, I've learned from hands and responses you have posted. That said I think you need to concentrate, play poker and don't do other crap at the same time. I'm a 22 year old male and this is hard for me too, but it has to be done.
Bankroll management is your best friend right now because unlike so many others you know how to play.

Good luck (you won't hear that often from me)

Cambraceres

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

When you get your party account, remember you can play at their beginner tables for the first 45 days. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Without PT I definitely wouldn't play Ring at a site that supports it.

You might like to look at SnG's (1 table or Heads-Up) to build a small roll up with limited risk if you make a mistake..

I played 300 SnG's before I went anywhere near a Ring Game and feel that it's a great way of getting a lot of NL hands under your belt with little risk..

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I have ADD.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love how failure to pay attention is now classified as an illness.

I'm not a college freshman but I was one 24 years ago. You're obviously stressed over the finances, so square them before you play another hand online. As another poster recommended, get your accounts set up, get PT and GT+ (or better yet PokerAce HUD). As you've well discovered, the edge online is thin. If you play stressed, you'll give it away.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Something that may work for you, it does for me.

I found that when I play a full table, success comes from playing super tight aggressive. Other folks at a full table generally respect raises and continuation bets. So your aggression can pay off.

At a 6max table, I find that aggressive pre-flop (unless monster starter) is just spewing chips. I think the reason is, that everyone wants in community hands no matter what the raise is. So a 3 - 4 bet raise will still get 3 - 4 callers out of 6, and if you miss you basically lost your raise.

So my strategy at a 6max table is the following:

1. Passive preflop: i.e. dont raise mid-raising hands AQ,AJ,
2. Raise high suited connectors on button or 1 off, hoping to get a chance for a free card if needed after flop.
3. Get in as many pots as possible with marginal hands when community is involved. Especially if somone is raising 3 - 4 times blind.
4. 2 pair or better after flop, play hyper aggressive.
5. Got to be willing to put your stack in the middle with the edge. Too many people still calling with middle pair let alone a top pair hand.
6. If your table is raising every time 3 - 4 BB's or so, dont be afraid to limp with a monster, and push after it gets raised. Someone will still call you with something you dominate.
7. Had to add: If someone pushes all in in front of you representing an overbet. Dont call unless you have a set or better, or a good read on them. If you have a good read on them, I still think 2 pair or better.

These are just some of the things I do when I am building at the lower levels. I buy in short, therefore I can push the edges when I hit.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

You should stop playing for a day or two to collect thoughts. You need to get your head together. If you are afraid of losing then your play will suffer.

Most of the good players in this forum (you know who they are) have been on multi-buy-in downswings. You can be playing at the top of your game and still have a few devastating losing sessions. People tend to forget that we enjoy playing a game where luck is a determining factor.

Post hands, look for leaks, but most importantly, don't lose your confidence. Poker is about making right decisions. If you do that, bankroll growth will naturally occur. Think about hands/situations where you lost money. Did you make the right decision? If so, don't dwell on it, just know that if you continue to make that decision you will be way ahead over the long run.

To offer a word of encouragement, I started playing on Party two weeks ago. After about 7k hands one of my biggest losing hands is AA. The worst poker player in the world will make money playing AA so I know things will turn around and I don't let it bother me.

I hope all goes well with your parent s and you get set-up with Pokertracker. You seem like the type of player who would immediately benefit from it.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I really need to get the hang of this internet thing though.

I feel that I have a fairly good grasp of PF/postflop play, necessary for beating the 25NL at least. I think I've been getting hit by the deck lately, but its rough because my small roll can't take these hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

metoo ...

though I am not neccesarily a good player (yet) - I took a couple of days off and moved sites to pokerstars.

2k hands later I am down $150 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] tho I am being nailed by the cards and sucked out on lots - it feels as well like everytime I hit a good hand and come out betting everyone else folds...

am I *that* predictable ? - no
is there a neon sign over my head that flashes (fold now) when I hit a good hand? - no
is AA my #1 losing hand on pokerstars so far? - yes!

variance is a female canine - but if I just wait long enough it'll all work out beautifully in the end. at least thats what I tell myself.

Take a day off - rummage through your stats and look for leaks - read and apply little nuggets of info you mine from these fabulous forums - then get back to the tables and blow a few fish out of the water.. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

good luck.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

People with ADD actually do very well at things they enjoy like poker... most of the time they hyper focus and tend to not notice the time fly by.

Of course that takes them away from all the stuff they have to do to be a responsible person.

Guin

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think it might be harder for a live game player to jump into the internet game than just starting at the internet game.
I think the differences between the games are pretty big. On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up. Also you get tons of reads and really get to know how the villians play, not to mention live games are notorious for donks.

I think it is possible to pick up lines that might work well in a home game and much less so on the internet. Just a thought, but you might be better leaving a lot of the things that have worked for you in home games behind, and kind of start fresh.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Sorry to hear...

I'm in the midst of PT problems on my computer (I've been without for 2+ weeks and am still talking to support), so I decided to start single tabling $25NL 6-max. It's actually been a good thing -- taking a lot of notes and concentrating on the tendencies of different players. These are things I always do in homegames, but are somewhat lax on when I can just read PT stats.

Don't get me wrong, I'll be back with PT as soon as I can get it working, but I think if you single table for a while, post hands and offer feedback to other 2+2's you will overcome the downswing.

On a side note, that was horrible advice from the poster who said to take out a cash advance on a credit card to pay for Party Poker. Talk about a high rake + the possibility of losing the money.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Heh, I drop 4 buyins on a semi-weekly basis. Don't worry about it.

Edit: are people really THAT dependent on PT?

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

Thanks for comments/advice/thoughts. I appreciate it. If my parents don't let me set up my own account, I'm going to [censored] spaz. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

Once, again, thanks for replies.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The more small edges you push the greater EV you accumulate. Pushing smaller edges with more hands ensures that they would theoretically become winning plays more quickly according to the Law of Large Numbers.

Alternatively, if you can flip with a horrendous player in a live game that might get up and cash his winnings it would be a bad idea to give him the opportunity rather than wait for a 70/30 spot. Brunson says don't gamble with bad players, online I will because they are in abundance, when one leaves another can easily replace him.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the internet at small stakes you can pass on small edges because you have 6 tables of instantly dealt cards and a larger edge is often right around the corner.

Live games people tend to push smaller edges. The game is not going to last forever, you have a limited time to make some cash, and you dont recive 6 tables of instantly dealt cards so that larger edge might never turn up.

[/ QUOTE ]For someone just starting to play online, this is gold. I just started multi-tabling and it has really changed my poker life.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The more small edges you push the greater EV you accumulate. Pushing smaller edges with more hands ensures that they would theoretically become winning plays more quickly according to the Law of Large Numbers.


[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that people playing small stakes are often wrong about their edge. Yes experienced players can push any possible edge, but for someone who is not experienced or does not have the confidence to follow through then they can wait for the bigger edge to show up. When an inexperienced player starts pushing small edges it often costs them their stack when they are wrong, while an more veteran player will realize when to get away from a pot after they have started on it. I am not giving advice to a veteran internet player here (he been playing a bit less then 3 months on-line), but to someone that wants to build a roll and I think it is solid advice. I would not tell an experience winner with a good bankroll role not to push small edges.

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ed Miller's short stack strategy

[/ QUOTE ]

forgive the noob question but where can I read this...search hates me google does too

Straight Flushes,

SAM

Re: Help, I\'m getting raped online (long)
 

It is in one of his books,

However, I know about 4 people that tried it, all quit after a short while. I tried it for about 5k hands, lost $140 at 25NL.

I think that it may work live, but not on-line (the examples in his book are all of live play).

Margon