turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

Comments on all streets appreciated ...

Do most people toss this to a flop donk? Villian is somewhat laggy, but no maniac. It's hard for me to put villian on trips, since the majority of 1/2 6maxers wait until the turn to raise ... especially heads up.


Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

What are the thoughts on a turn C/R vs. a call down? I figured at the time WA/WB since of villian doesn't have a 2, the only hands not "way behind" are A4, A5 &amp; 2 diamonds.

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

What are the range of hands you can give him on the pfr? It sort of smells like a pp of some sort. It would suck if it was pp3s, or pp2s, but I think when the queen hits you need to play back at him and either c/r or raise. On the river I would lead out and be sad if he raised me back and showed me pp10's or a flush.

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

I prefer a donk/call down...I dont think you can call down if he 3bets your c/r

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

Do you call the river raise? I can't imagine any non-maniac villian raising that river against a turn c/r with a hand that queens beat ...

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer a donk/call down...I dont think you can call down if he 3bets your c/r

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree we have to fold to a 3-bet, but i also don't think Villain is raising a worse hand than our Qs, but he will bet again (unless he's a total retard) if checked to. We give up too much value by donking.

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

You could donk bet this turn, but I don't think villian will raise it with a hand we're head of. I like a check-raise on the turn. Lead the river if he calls.

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

The checkraise might be an option, but if villian was on a stone-cold bluff (which he might continue to the river), then we miss out on an extra BB since he will most likely fold to the raise. If villian was on a legit draw, then we don't win an extra BB from him (assuming he folds after missing on the river and would have given a river-bluff attempt). The only time that we win an extra bet is if villian is a complete tool and calls us down with a 3 (or possibly makes a weaker Q?)

If villian has us beat (with a 2), then we either fold the turn 3-bet, or lose an extra bet than we would by just check-calling to the river.

I'm not convinced that the c/r is the best option ... maybe someone can correct my anaylsis.

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

Donking also ensures that $ goes into the pot if villian happens to be on a draw w/ something like 65, 54, A4, and so on. Villian would be willing to put more money in on the turn, with a live draw, but would fold UI on the river

Re: turned top pair against a flop raise ...
 

I play this the same.

Any bet/fold lines and I think you'll throw away the best hand too often.
Any c/r and you only cost yourself money when behind and he folds when you're ahead.
You could bet the river but I think you get raised by better hands way more often than you get called by worse hands. Plus I think he's much more likely to bet a worse hand than call with it.

NH.