Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

My wife, who is supportive of my poker habit, as no previous hobby has ever been profitable, asked me this morning about the essential value of poker as a profession. She suggested that all jobs have value both as a way to earn money (honorable) and also provide a service or needed function. Doctors, teachers, waitresses, construction workers and ditchdiggers all play an important role in society. Professional poker certainly can earn money to help support their families, but is there value to society beyond this? My poker play supplements in a meager way my income as a clinical psychologist, but in no way benefits anyone. In fact my sitting down at a table means the rest of the table will, on average, lose a BB or two an hour. Not devastating, but certainly no help either.

So, is there any redeeming social value other than income?

Are there any other jobs so bereft of such value?

Does any of this matter, so long as I'm winning?

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

My children intensely dislike the fact that their formerly respectable father now plays and writes about poker. One reason is that they believe poker has no redeeming social value. I am currently writing a book that says it has more educational value than sports. I think I make a good case, but others will make the final judgment.
I find it fascinating that football, baseball, and basketball players are heros, even though they contribute nothing except entertainment and many of them use drugs, get in fights, and are extremely immoral sexually. But we poker players are nearly pariahs because we also provide nothing but entertainment, cost society much less money, don't do drugs, and don't have the same sexual habits.
Thankfully, TV is changing our images. We are not yet respectable, but we are making progress.
Regards,
Al

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

My poker play supplements in a meager way my income as a clinical psychologist, but in no way benefits anyone.

Not true. By supplementing your income, you create more disposable dollars. By spending those dollars, you add to the overall value of the economy. If you invest those dollars, the bank now has additional funds to lend to businesses. In addition, you contribution to rake contributes to another industry which in turn spreads value to other people.

Every dollar earned and spent and saved has a downstream economic value. Your primary responsibilty to "society" is to take care of yourself and your family. As long as you're doing that, you are holding up your end of the social compact.

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

At least in a live casino, a pro player can serve two functions that are in fact useful to society. First, they provide a body to get regular games going. Second, they can provide a good playing experience for the bad players who donate. The second one assumes they are personable when playing, and not being a jerk.

I am not convinced either of these applies that much online.

al

slight nitpick
 

[ QUOTE ]
But we poker players are nearly pariahs because we also provide nothing but entertainment, cost society much less money, don't do drugs, and don't have the same sexual habits.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is a certain % of poker players with the same bad habits and behavior as many high profile athletes have. I do think tho that these are much less obvious to society than it currently is in sports figures, who are subjected to more intense media scrutiny. If such a day comes as poker players are as glorified as athletes are today, similar scandals may very well occur in the poker world too.

al

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

A good friend and occasional poker player sent me the following email in response to my query...


The valueless rounder? Well, you could cast such a critical eye around and see what jobs survive. Anyways, do you think speeding the inevitable (i.e. the separation of a fool and his money) is a service of no worth? It puts more money in more capable hands, and good thing for society.

Re: slight nitpick
 

While I agree that media scrutiny is a factor in athletes' notoriety, there is lots of evidence that their habits are MUCH worse than ours.
Hardly any good poker players -- and almost no professionals -- do drugs because of the knowledge that they prevent people from playing well. Yet there are drug scandals involving top athletes nearly every month.
Wilt Chamberlain bragged in his book that he had had sex with over 20,000 women, and Magic Johnson said publicly that he "accomodated" over 500 women. Kobe's defense lawyer will almost certainly claim, "It wasn't Kobe's fault. She wanted him because he's a basketball star. Poor Kobe couldn't resist her." How many top poker players have had sex with 600 or 20,000 women? How many have been tried for rape?
To the best of my knowledge, none.
Regards,
Al

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

I believe you would be hard pressed to convince anyone outside of the poker community that this game has any redeeming merits. Most look at it incorrectly as another form of gambling instead of a game of skill.

The positive merits, IMO, aside from the money earning potential, are the values of hard-work (studying and learning) and discipline required to aquire and maintain these skills.

This game, more than many others based on skill, can teach one how to be not only a good winner but also a good loser. This is a social skill that many poker players and non-poker players alike lack.

I am still striving to become better at all of the better aforementioned. The 2+2 forums help us become better poker players and better people.

Re: Value of the \"profession,\" bereft?
 

Sorry, got a bit off topic, there.

Value as a profession, IMO, same as other Professional Sports, entertainment value. WPT events are televised so it has become a spectator event and it has idols that "we aspire to become like" or are on the pedestal for our admiration, analysis and/or criticism.

As before, usually difficult to justify the merits of the game in general to non-poker players, giving it merits as a profession, now that's a tough one.

Re: slight nitpick
 

The top players in poker will almost never have a CURRENT drug problem. I should have stated that. Stu Ungar tho shows that some, even top players, do have life problems such as drug abuse. I doubt Stu was heavily drugged up tho when he was playing his best.

My comments were more geared towards poker players in general (winners or losers), not the top players we see on TV every week. I should have clarified that as well.

al