Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

So I am using Pokertracker Omaha. I play 5-6 max O8. I have accumulated over 30,000 hands at one poker room. No one with 300+ hands is a winner. Although in a combined 30,000 hands at 3 other rooms I am + 1.7bb/100 I am -5 bb/100 like every other player with over 300 hands. It is mind boggling.

Can anyone explain why this one room would have no long term winners? The only short term winners are ones with very high VP$IP. Obviously these players are not menaingful with such a small sample.

Whats going on at this one room? Is the rake just crushing the games because everyone is of equal skill? My sample with the other 3 rooms combined makes me know this game is beatable.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

What are the names of the three rooms and which is the one where nobody is winning? If you don't want to say for some reason, just compare the rake schedules yourself. Also, your sample is small.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

Party, Stars and Paradise have winners, There are no winners from players that played 1%+ of my sample hands at Absolute. 34 players have all lost. At the other 3 it is about 20-25% winners for players playing 1% of the sample size for that room.

The first 3 have a better rake schedule. I guess the 2/4-3/6 schedule at AP hurts it that bad? There are winners there but no one who player many hands. There are some with 150 hands up 20 big betswith 75% VP$IP but I do not think these are meaningful, do you? I guess it at least explains where all the money went.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

First of all, in split pot games the house tends to do well for many reasons.

IMO, O8B is a game where so many pots are split that a lot of players dont go broke very fast, which enables them to keep playing, and lose money much slower than they would in a game like hold'em.

In the example you gave I think that you are seeing the exaggerated effects of rake in O8B.

I can't explain why one room would have no long term winners unless it didn't have that many long term players????


BTW, a high VP$IP (45%) is a good number in a lot of the games online.

It might be that the pool of players in the room you are talking about don't have a large edge on eachother and therefore just end up losing the rake. It's possible. I'v played in live games before where players just traded pots over and over until someone said "we've been playing for three hours and the only person that's made a dime is the house"





Tex

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

You should be able to use PTO somehow to do the accounting, but I don't buy that there are no winners in this game. Someone else who plays at Absolute should drop in here and report how many *winning* players are in their database to put this thread to sleep.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

It might be that the pool of players in the room you are talking about don't have a large edge on eachother and therefore just end up losing the rake.

I am thinking this too. I was just curious if others ran into these same type of stats.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It might be that the pool of players in the room you are talking about don't have a large edge on eachother and therefore just end up losing the rake.

I am thinking this too. I was just curious if others ran into these same type of stats.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no fing way this is right. List some numbers here. How many players do you have over 300 hands for? How much rake has been contributed total over how many total hands? It should be trivial to collect this information from PTO. For example, go to the summary tab, and just copy the pertinent #'s here.

BTW, Tex is batting .000 lately, so if you find yourself agreeing with him, it's time to reconsider.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

"IMO, O8B is a game where so many pots are split that a lot of players dont go broke very fast, which enables them to keep playing, and lose money much slower than they would in a game like hold'em. "

O8 is a game of large edges, so I would've thought poor players will lose their money faster than in HE. I think at least one of the books I bought when I learned O8 agreed with this.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

PTO doesn't calculate rake right in O8b. It records each winning player paying the entire rake.

The AP games are pretty strange, there isn't a lot of PF action. There may be 5 to the flop, most fold on the flop to a bet of they don't have anything, so you have a lot of heads-up pots. Many people feed the rake being overly agressive heads-up.

Re: Does the rake kill O8 this bad?
 

Hi,
I play O8 on absolute, 2/4-10/20. I am at about 3BB/100 for 11.4k hands so far. In my database, of the 12 people who have > 500 hands, 4 are winners, 8 are losers.