Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

Sorry for all the noob posts...but I'm really struggling with these akward stacked spots...


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter

UTG (t4010)
MP (t1450)
Hero (t1870)
SB (t5480)
BB (t2190)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t200,


Obviously I'm raising this hand...but how much? and if I get called and wiff - whats the flop plan?

I thought about raising to 500. but then the pot is = to my remaining stack and becomes difficult to get away from if I miss the flop.

I have 1800 and the pot is around 500.

So..should I just be shoving pre-flop?

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

I never shove unless I have to. My standard raise is 4x BB, so 800 here. If there's more callers, then I raise more. Your stack is low, so you need some chips. Suppose you could shove and collect the blinds plus the limp, but I'd prefer a standard raise, with a continuation bet on the flop if you get any callers, regardless of what flops. Even if you get called, you should have some outs.

ScottieK

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

Yes-- with the blinds 100/200 and your stack size, you would be better off shoving preflop.

The extra benefit is that you will avoid being put in an "akward" spot later on in the hand.

I actually really like your spelling of awkward... it's like a spelling form of onomatopoeia.

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

[ QUOTE ]

So..should I just be shoving pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

AK likes to see all five cards.

IMO anytime you have a raising hand and the opportunity to increase your stack by &gt;15%, if you are not called, pushing is never far from the optimal play.

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never shove unless I have to. My standard raise is 4x BB, so 800 here. If there's more callers, then I raise more. Your stack is low, so you need some chips. Suppose you could shove and collect the blinds plus the limp, but I'd prefer a standard raise, with a continuation bet on the flop if you get any callers, regardless of what flops. Even if you get called, you should have some outs.

ScottieK

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious? I should put 800 of my 1800 chips pre-flop and then CB the flop regardless if checked to? What CB bet would you suggest into the T1600 pot when I only have T1000 chips? Do I have any OTHER than all-in?

So my questions for you come to this:

a) If I'm going to put all my money regardless of what comes out - why shouldn't I just do it pre-flop when I'm likely ahead?
b) When the flop misses me and the OTHER guy pushes at me - do I call or fold for my last T1000 (5 big blinds) with the pot now approaching T3000?

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So..should I just be shoving pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

AK likes to see all five cards.

IMO anytime you have a raising hand and the opportunity to increase your stack by &gt;15%, if you are not called, pushing is never far from the optimal play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two good points.

Is that 15% number a standard rule of thumb?
And using that rule of thumb - would you still shove if you knew you'd only get called by people ahead of you?
(Say I had A 9s on the button with limpers in front of me.)

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I actually really like your spelling of awkward... it's like a spelling form of onomatopoeia.

[/ QUOTE ]
NH, sir.

With a stack of 1800 and change and 500 in the middle I can't see raising except to shove. I suppose you could argue for a call .....

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

The only right move here is to push preflop.

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

pooooosh

Re: Akward stack spot - whats my line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

So..should I just be shoving pre-flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

AK likes to see all five cards.

IMO anytime you have a raising hand and the opportunity to increase your stack by &gt;15%, if you are not called, pushing is never far from the optimal play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two good points.

Is that 15% number a standard rule of thumb?

<font color="blue"> It's something Sklansky wrote a long time ago regarding tournament play that I think applies very well to STT. If you go into push/fold mode below 10BB you're doing it by default, but I use it as a general rule anytime the dead money in the pot is more than 15% of my stack </font>
And using that rule of thumb - would you still shove if you knew you'd only get called by people ahead of you?
(Say I had A 9s on the button with limpers in front of me.)

<font color="blue"> A9s with a bunch of limpers is not really a raising hand. (except to steal) This guideline is used when you have a hand that demands a raise, but pushing may chase out a profitable caller. If your going to pickup 15% don't worry about losing anybody. Especially at the lower levels you will get plenty of calls to your pushes. </font>


[/ QUOTE ]

The push/fold with less than 10BB "rule" and the if your raising more than 30% of your stack you should push "rule" all lead to the same 15% cutoff.