Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

Do NOT pump the pot with only the nut low because it is highly likely that you are only drawing to half of the pot, and possibly only a quarter. Assuming you only have the nut low, there are two other opponents in the pot, and one of them also has only the nut low, then you only are receiving 1/4 of every bet you put into the pot because half of each bet goes to the high hand, and though half is also going to each low hand, you only own half of that. Each bet made is -1/4 bet EV!

And to think it only took me two hours of live play to figure it out [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

I called getting a quartering as "winning the prize" for over 5 years... then this happened on the internet....
http://www.56k.dk/ondmis.dk/fpics/you_win_the_prize.jpg

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

It's generally a negative expected value play, but there is some +EV (entertainment value) in pumping the pot on the river with only the nut low. It's funny listening to the frustration/disgust from the other nut-lows who are forced to call your big bets knowing they will likely only see 1/4 of it back.

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I called getting a quartering as "winning the prize" for over 5 years... then this happened on the internet....
http://www.56k.dk/ondmis.dk/fpics/you_win_the_prize.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
Ribbo, if you had just posted this pic without any explanation, it would have been approximately 10000000000x funnier. I will be stealing this photo and using it as such to ridicule and intimidate this forum's new influx of tards.

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I called getting a quartering as "winning the prize" for over 5 years... then this happened on the internet....
http://www.56k.dk/ondmis.dk/fpics/you_win_the_prize.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
Ribbo, if you had just posted this pic without any explanation, it would have been approximately 10000000000x funnier. I will be stealing this photo and using it as such to ridicule and intimidate this forum's new influx of tards.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only thing funnier than making fun of the mentally handicapped is using the mentally handicapped to make fun of others. Good show. I look forward to seeing this early and often in response to my posts.

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

Is there any chance of getting another nut low to fold? Am I making a mistake laying down a low hand for two or more bets?

I have started laying down a nut low if it is two or more bets to me on the river because I figure it is a bad investment. If there are lots of players, I jam it because I need lots of dead money to split up. Getting quartered isn't so bad if there is enough dead money.

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

Don't ignore the size of the pot. If there was a lot of betting on prior streets, there may be enough money in the pot to justify raising/calling with just the nut low even if you are getting quartered.

Try to determine if your opponents are going for the high or the low.

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

Steam,

I actually agree with TGoldman on this issue. The entertainment value of watching the low limit table captains scream at you for raising the nut low is well worth the price of admission.

I don't play at Party anymore.

But about a week ago I looked in my Party account and what do I see? There's $30 sitting there.

Ok, I head over to the .5/1 table and play for a bit.

There is one guy at the table who is giving "lessons" on playing the nut low to the other players. Being really nasty and all.

Well, a couple hands later, I'm playing a hand with the nut low against this table captain and a guy to my right who also has the nut low.

For some reason I started to think that the table captain had the nut low too.

So when the betting came to me...I raised on the river...because I had a high pair too. There was a chance...even though it was a slim one, that I had the high as well (I had a pair of kings to go with my nut low).

It didn't work out. I got quartered for the low and table captain took the high....and then went balistic....how I was a horrible player and all that.

But here's the moral of the story. It cost me one extra bet (of which I got a quarter of it back) to take a chance and win 3/4 of the big pot. And the real idiot was the table captain...who was soooooo annoyed with my raise that he forgot that he had the nut high hand and should have raised himself...costing him 2 more bets for us low hands.

Quartering isn't fun. It happens, but people worry about it way too much.

Dave

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's generally a negative expected value play

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. Sometimes it's -EV, but not even most of the time.

If you know an opponent also has the nut low, and if you know you have no chance to knock out a better high with your raise, then you're better off calling. But usually you don't know that.

And if you don't know you're getting quartered, and if you have a shot at high, the benefits of raising can outweigh the drawbacks.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

Re: Lesson learned with the nut low...
 

Mr.C, You're certainly starting off in the right direction with your analysis, but don't get caught in the trap of never raising with a nut low, as many weak players do. In a 3 handed situation, when you put in 1/3 & sometimes get back 1/4 & other times get back back 1/2, the net EV is minimal. Even if the average EV is minus in a narrow sense, you get EV back in the meta-game from being known as an action player & being harder to read, thereby getting paid off more. Good luck. Ben