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- - overcall? (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=386063)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Both Villains are fairly passive post flop. MP1 is 35.8/4.66/1.15/32.22/41.38. About all I know about him at this point is that he cold calls too much. The other guy is 56.88/1.88/0.82/32.69/47.06. Both have shown some aggression post flop, but nothing noticeably out of type.

Table is ok. Not a lot of pf aggression. Pretty average post flop aggression. I'm solidly negative and may have overplayed a few hands (I'm sure I overplayed a few hands, just not sure whether they've happened yet). Mostly I've been watching reasonably strong hands end up second best.

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero ???

Can I overcall here?

*grunch*

I wouldn't. MP2 could have a busted draw or J high, yes. But chances are very good that MP1 has 2Pair or better and you are ahead of J9 only. I'd dump it, but I'm on tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

I think you'll see J9 QJ AJ, KJ even J8 or 88 from both of them more than 1 in 15 times.

Do we really fold an overpair for 1 bet in a 15 BB pot?

Every so often a hand comes along that makes me think about the oft cited maxim about not folding for 1 BB in a big pot closing the action.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, BB folds, Hero calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Results:
MP1 has 8h Jh (two pair, jacks and tens).
MP2 has 9d Jc (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: MP1 wins 7.62 BB. MP2 wins 7.62 BB.

I was understandably grumpy. Error or < 1/15 + too results oriented?

Its hard for me to make an unbiased decision given the results are shown. You have a pretty good hand. Bet on the river, its only 1 bet. Now if it were raised up by these villains then I would fold, but going all the way with this good pot and folding for one bet is not the way to go.

i'd call. you almost always have MP2 beat and MP1's hand hasn't been defined clearly yet. J9/QJ from MP1 is still possible.

Wow. This hand kind of sucks. I want to bet the turn for info, but that's useless, and I'd like to find a fold, but given your reads, I think I play it the same way. I'm just not folding the river getting 15.5:1

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. This hand kind of sucks. I want to bet the turn for info, but that's useless, and I'd like to find a fold, but given your reads, I think I play it the same way. I'm just not folding the river getting 15.5:1

[/ QUOTE ]

you know he has a one-card OESD on the turn right? OESD + counterfeiting outs + possible best hand would make a turn fold to one bet very bad.

[ QUOTE ]
*grunch*

I wouldn't. MP2 could have a busted draw or J high, yes. But chances are very good that MP1 has 2Pair or better and you are ahead of J9 only. I'd dump it, but I'm on tilt. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

OP has the best possible two pair on this board except for KK and AA in the hole. I think "overcalling" in this situation is irrelevant; the question is can we even call the bettor? I think most of the time he has a lone J, I'd call since the pot is big.

p.s. that was a semi-grunch before seeing the results [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]