Quads obv
 

Party 10/20 NL

UTG limps, some guy makes it 65 in EMP...I call with 22 1 caller behind me and original limper calls.

The flop is 228 2 toned (obv) Original raiser makes it 150 to go, I call. everyone else folds.

Turn is an 8, so 8822 he bets 225. I call

river is a 6, he checks and I bet 1600 all in.
Pot is around 800ish

Re: Quads obv
 

You don't need to ask about this hand. I know you want to improve and you may have a lot of questions, but you should spend some time replying to other peoples threads and just reading the board in general...Often
times you will find what you are looking for just as quickly.

Re: Quads obv
 

OK maybe u are right...should I delete this thread? Basically the river push was my only question, but is that an easy decision?

Re: Quads obv
 

Hell no, do NOT delete this thread.

Re: Quads obv
 

You could do lots of different things..depends on your opponent, what your read was, things like that...

Re: Quads obv
 

I dont see a decent player calling with just an overpair here. Unless you have some history of overbet bluffing then I don't think you can get a call. His raise PF let lots of crap hands in and if he's smart he's going to know he has to let it go.

Re: Quads obv
 

Yea I agree...not much content in this hand, but I think a lot of my other posts are pretty good.. Dont worry I wont always bombard the board like this, but it was late night and not much was going on anyways here

Re: Quads obv
 

this is the most interesting hand youve posted yet (that ive seen)...
i like your play.

Re: Quads obv
 

It's a little counterintuitive, but raising the flop can be nice here. If he has a 8, or something like JJ, this is your best chance to bloat the pot. There are a lot of turn cards that may kill your action.

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
Party 10/20 NL

UTG limps, some guy makes it 65 in EMP...I call with 22 1 caller behind me and original limper calls.

The flop is 228 2 toned (obv) Original raiser makes it 150 to go, I call. everyone else folds.

Turn is an 8, so 8822 he bets 225. I call

river is a 6, he checks and I bet 1600 all in.
Pot is around 800ish

[/ QUOTE ]

Overbetting the hell out of quads when the board is double-paired is so obvious that I'd call it "standard" if it came up more than once every billion hands. I've seen this situation three times and never NOT seen a big overbet by quads...each time a boat paid off.

Re: Quads obv
 

Obviously if he has an 8, pushing is great, but you'd get all-in on the river anyway. I think an overpair is more likely though. I'd go with 650 or 700, and I agree that raising the flop is good, because it's hard to put you on a big hand there.

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
You could do lots of different things..depends on your opponent, what your read was, things like that...

[/ QUOTE ]

Very useful. Have you considered writing a book?

Re: Quads obv
 

mmmmm i guess he calls most pairs and sometimes A high, but I'd really like to get paid off on the river here with a value bet of around 600

Re: Quads obv
 

Hmmm yes I admit I have paid off a quads overbet with the full house before....

Re: Quads obv
 

To me it seems like you let him off real easy, you tell him you have quads here with that bet. I would value bet the river around 400-600 depending on the player

Re: Quads obv
 

If he has an 8, pushing is great. He obviously doesn't fold it.

I would be very surprised if he has an 8 though. I would bet around $450. I'd say whatever you bet here it's pretty obvious you are full so I'd go small and try and eke value from his overpair.

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
To me it seems like you let him off real easy, you tell him you have quads here with that bet. I would value bet the river around 400-600 depending on the player

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So you lay down an 8 on an 88622 board every time somebody pushes? Good to know.

Re: Quads obv
 

if he thinks you are good and capable of making moves i like a turn raise representing an 8 because most good players in your spot will not have an 8 here and he knows that. call, call, river push on drawless board looks a tad strong.

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
Overbetting the hell out of quads when the board is double-paired is so obvious that I'd call it "standard" if it came up more than once every billion hands. I've seen this situation three times and never NOT seen a big overbet by quads...each time a boat paid off.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he has an 8, pushing is great. He obviously doesn't fold it.

I would be very surprised if he has an 8 though. I would bet around $450. I'd say whatever you bet here it's pretty obvious you are full so I'd go small and try and eke value from his overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the only thing that meaks sense to me. Why put him to the test with a huge over bet? I'd be a happy with a call for the minimum he'd call with.

Re: Quads obv
 

I think flop raise, turn push is probably the best way to get money in there.
He will be salivating to get his money in on that flop with a big pair.
Very hard for him to put u on a monster on that flop.
If he calls your flop raise, and you push turn, it still is difficult to put you on a big hand because its unlikely you would raise that flop with an 8.

Re: Quads obv
 

I think the flop raise is only good in retrospect. I think calling twice is pretty good, maybe a raise on the turn like lap said. I don't think villain has an 8 here very often, but has an overpair very often. I'm torn, but I'm in the value bet camp on this one just because of how the betting went. I don't think a big pair looks up often enough to make the overbet profitable against it.

Re: Quads obv
 

Just because he has flopped a monster doesnt mean he has to slowplay it,
It is extremely difficult to put him on a big hand on such a flop.
Villain doesnt put hero on a 2, and raising with an 8 there is not very sound.
This is a dream flop for 22 and not one where you need to slowplay to get money in.
You tell me what do you do with AA or KK on this flop?
You go broke right...thats why i think raising it is the best option.

Edit:
I also think pushing flop is a good way to get money in...a big pair doesnt fold to a flop push.

Re: Quads obv
 

Maybe I do like a flop raise then. I just think raising the flop is shutting down 99-QQ and you can pick up a lot of value by bringing them to the turn.

Re: Quads obv
 

I dont think JJ/QQ shuts down that easy...
99/TT might, but thats about it.
If the turn is a flush card..it kills ur action...so does the 8 that came.
Get the money in when you can do so easily..
Slowplaying quads is standard BECAUSE its difficult to get value from them by playing fast..but this situation does not require you to slow play them.

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I do like a flop raise then. I just think raising the flop is shutting down 99-QQ and you can pick up a lot of value by bringing them to the turn.

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What shuts down TT is a scare card on the turn. Raising the flop is very good here, I think.

Re: Quads obv
 

Raise the flop to whatever amount you would raise with an overpair here. The advantages of raising here are to start building a big pot vs. an overpair. JJ-AA are going to have a hard time laying down on this board. Also, you want to start getting money into the pot before a scare card comes (overcard to his overpair, 3 flush). The disadvantages of raising the flop are possibly scaring off 99/TT and preventing him from bluffing the turn. Another small disadvantage is making AK/AQ fold the flop when the might have hit on the turn if you just flat call. The advantages of raising here outwiegh the disadvantages IMO.

As for the river here, I don't really like the overbet push unless you have a read on the villain of calling too much. Most decent players lay down an overpair here. I would make a value bet of 500 or so.

Results
 

He Folded

Re: Quads obv
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've seen this situation three times and never NOT seen a big overbet by quads...each time a boat paid off.

[/ QUOTE ]
I beg to differ