Your call?
 

Hi, just some background info for this controversy. I'm in a college dorm, and we've been playing for about a year and a half. Nothing ever in dispute really happened, and I'm recogized as the best player, so usually I call most rules. This time it involved me, so didn't make the decision. I'm the classic LAG player, raising or calling raises 6/10 hands preflop, and as a result, busting many aces and kings with 26's and such. That day, indeed I had busted a couple kings and queens with a few flopped two pairs or trips with 68 and the such, annoying a bunch of people. We're all great friends outside of poker and even inside poker it's a really friendly atmospher, but onto the story.

Now the most important part is the way I bet. I grab a stack of chips, and release two chips at a time horizontally across the "pot area". For example, I'd usually grab about 12 $1 chips, and lay down 2 stacks of $2 each for 4 dollars total all while my arm hasn't left the pot, but not really in one motion. Kind of like when pros play with their chips before putting in the pot.

Now this time i pick up QQ UTG+2 and raise it up and amazingly get 6 callers. The pot is huge, and UTG bets something like 3 dollars into a QJ9 two suited flop. I immediately say "I'll make it...", (which is usually what I say, we never say raise) and I grab a stack of chips and already am in the process of making piles of 2 chips each as usual, when I realize the pot is already 25 dollars and I have max 12 bucks in my hands with 6 callers. So i placed 5 piles of $2 each, and announce 18 before my arms leave the pot area and I go back to get more. One of my friends says I can't do that and it's string betting. I said my arms were still in the pot when I said it, and this is a homegame and it might even be true in the casino that its a legal move. He said no I cant do that because its string betting. I said I announced 18 even before the last pile of chips was placed in the betting. He said no, and I said ok lets post this on twoplustwo and find what the forums say for $50 bucks. I mainly said it because I knew this pot was going to be at least 50 bucks, and if I really only raised it to 10, I'd prob get a bunch of callers and lose the pot even with top set. He agreed so now here we are...

Would you accept this action, especially if you were in a home game, and secondly what would the casino ruling be?

Re: Your call?
 

I'd like to act that while I put my chips in, my hands never/didn't leave the pot area, and I always announce what I'm betting. I thought the most important part was that I announced 18 before my hands left the pot area, especially while I was still holding my last few chips in my hands, but didn't release them yet as I was still making piles like I normally do. Bad habit though.

Re: Your call?
 

I'd probably have a problem with this if I were at the table. We have a guy who grabs an entire stack and drops the bottom couple of chips. I think he's guaging his opponent's response while dropping chips, maybe deciding to drop more than he originally planned. I think it's a form of angling.

As you noted, the pros play with their chips "in front of them" before shoving them into the betting zone, but not the pot itself. They play with them, while they think and decide what they want to do. Then they put them in.

Think before you act/bet. It's a situation that could have been avoided.

Re: Your call?
 

Two things.

Your post contains a lot of what seems to be unnecessary information. Clean it up to where the pertinent info is clear and you will probably get more responses.

For example, instead of the whole first paragraph, which has nothing to do with the problem, just say something like:

"Regular home game in my dorm room." The rest of the details given are irrevelant.

Try to include the stakes and # of players.

Also, break your story into smaller paragraghs. It is easier to read.

It sounds like you are acting like a douche by the way you nonchalantly throw your chips around and let them figure out how much you intended to bet.

Instead, announce your bet verbally without any physical action past the 'bet line', then put the appropriate number of chips out.

From what I decipher from your description you put a bunch of chips out past the bet line, then reached for more. That is a string bet. You said "I'll make it..." and then put a bunch of chips out there. It wasn't until you realized how big the pot was that you knew you needed to bet more.

Stop using that phrase. Just act deliberate and say 'raise'.

Had you said "$18" while you're still stacking chips on the felt, you are committed to betting $18 no matter how many chips you put out there. Once you just stacked a few chips out there, you were committed to that.

Later

Re: Your call?
 

you win. it's not a string bet because you hadn't completed your action.

Re: Your call?
 

In addition to what PokerGoblin said, just because you are the "best player" doesn't mean you know what you are doing. Lots of weird stuff being done/said that you wouldn't see at a real poker game. Get a rule book and establish a rule sheet to be used for your game so there are no questions. If you were in the process of betting as you say, but have not completed your betting and have realised you are short on chips and state an amount you want to bet, it is not a string raise. Easiest thing to do is state what you want to do before you act.

Re: Your call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would you accept this action, especially if you were in a home game, and secondly what would the casino ruling be?

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a) Home Game. Allowed.
Spoken bets are binding. If the chips and the spoken differ - what is spoke is what reigns. Since you stated an amount WHILE you were still placing chips in the center - I'd say the verbal is what was binding.
My game would handle it this way - We'd allow it this once - EVEN if we felt you were angling a touch...just in the spirit of gamesmanship and all....but we'd make sure you knew for next time to state 'raise' or the dollar amount PRIOR to shoving chips in the center. Next time we'd make you take it back.
So...EVEN THOUGH I think its an easily allowable bet in a home game - I do think its closer than you think. You should know enough to know to STATE 'raise.' It could really be seen as angling what you did and I wouldn't blame a host for not allowing it....but we would allow it in my game - the first infraction at least...but maybe not the second one.

2) Casino....50/50....
Honestly it could go either way this one. All depends on the nuance that you can't/didn't describe. If the chips in the center was simultaneously stated with the $ amount w/no peering around at other players in the proces...then YEAH. I would think a casino would allow it. Otherwise it gets dicey.

Re: Your call?
 

You again? Have you ever been in a casino? The answer is obvious. I'll let others elaborate.

Re: Your call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You again? Have you ever been in a casino? The answer is obvious. I'll let others elaborate.

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lol. fair enough. no. I was guessing.

Bad guess I take it?

Re: Your call?
 

All I know is that if you think you always bust aces and kings with 2-6o, I want to play against you.

Re: Your call?
 

you're right, as others have said. verbal declaration of your bet stands..

but come on man, learn how to make a bet like a man. this stacks of 2 chips thing has to go. cut off bigger stacks

Replies...
 

First of all sorry if I sounded like a douche. I had to say it was a home game in a college dorm, and the fact that we've been playing for over a year together and nothing like this ever occured. I know as the best player there I'm not necessarily right, which is why I posted here. And furthermore, I do not always think I can bust aces and kings with 26o, but I am always willing to call a raise because I know they cannot lay down aces or kings if I flop big, and I have huge implied odds.

Secondly, it seems that some people think I just throw my chips out and change my mind whenever I want. I never do or intend to do that, and seriously it's just to save time, minimal as it is. Rather than count out how much I want THEN putting it in, I'm doing it AS i put it in. And rather than announce it before I put it in, I announce it AS I'm putting it in. I always declare how much I make it before the last chips leave my hand. I know it sounds dumb, but I like to save time. And yes, I did not have enough chips the first time I stuck my hand in, but before the chips left my hand I verbalized the intention to raise more. Dunno if that works.

And last of all, it IS a casual college game that we used to play pretty much 5 days out of 7 last year, it reduced somewhat this year but it's EXTREMELY casual. Announcing raises and literally saying raise is pretty rare, there's anything from "ill make it 8", "raise 3", "double it", "call and add 4 more" to "i'll put <john> all in" when it's a 5 way pot with everyone still left to act. First time it's come up really. I had to talk about my playstyle and how I busted people with marginal holdings only because I think he was really steamed when I busted him earlier, and had to throw that out to be considered.

SOrry again for sounding like a douche, but obviously us poker players have a bit of a ego to uphold...especially college ones like me

Re: Your call?
 

ITs a string bet, no decsion there. You must either
1 announce your raise before putting your chips in the poit or

2 move your bet into the pot in one motion.

Re: Replies...
 

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it IS a casual college game...it's EXTREMELY casual.

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Then your move should be allowed.

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"call and add 4 more"

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If you allow that - then your move really has to be allowed.

Re: Replies...
 

Could you remind us two or three times more that you're the best player in your game? Maybe not everyone caught that part the first two couple of times...

Re: Replies...
 

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Could you remind us two or three times more that you're the best player in your game? Maybe not everyone caught that part the first two couple of times...

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lol

You could quote it for him if you think people missed it.

Re: Your call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, just some background info for this controversy. I'm in a college dorm, and we've been playing for about a year and a half. Nothing ever in dispute really happened, and I'm recognized as the best player so usually I call most rules.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Replies...
 

[ QUOTE ]
First of all sorry if I sounded like a douche. I had to say it was a home game in a college dorm, and the fact that we've been playing for over a year together and nothing like this ever occured. I know as the best player there I'm not necessarily right, which is why I posted here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Replies...
 

good thing i made another 50 dollar bet that writing I was the best player would inevitably annoy some douche who knows neither me or the people I play with so much he has to post a couple of times with nothing useful to add....

Re: Replies...
 

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good thing i made another 50 dollar bet that writing I was the best player would inevitably annoy some douche who knows neither me or the people I play with so much he has to post a couple of times with nothing useful to add....

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ladies and gentlemen, he does it one more time for the record! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] There's the hat trick!

your auto-ego-stroking doesn't annoy me; i just find it really funny [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Replies...
 

it obviously annoys you. why bother pretending you find it funny?

i think it can be generalized that poker players :
a.) hate when others say theyre the best player of their home game, despite it being the truth
b.) pretend not to hate it, and instead say "they find it really funny"

Seriously though, get a life. That advice is worth much more than you'll ever win in poker.

Re: Replies...
 

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good thing i made another 50 dollar bet that writing I was the best player would inevitably annoy some douche who knows neither me or the people I play with so much he has to post a couple of times with nothing useful to add....

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You just made my day...

Is my life THAT pathetic? In my defense my GF is out of town...

Re: Replies...
 

[ QUOTE ]
it obviously annoys you. why bother pretending you find it funny?

i think it can be generalized that poker players :
a.) hate when others say theyre the best player of their home game, despite it being the truth
b.) pretend not to hate it, and instead say "they find it really funny"

Seriously though, get a life. That advice is worth much more than you'll ever win in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he finds annoying you funnier than your bragging...

Seriously though - the info is actually a little relevant to the story - but it does come across as a little humorous...I've said it in posts too so I understand.

And as for him getting a life...aren't you the one who dropped $100 prop bets on a 2+2 thread?

Aren't you in college? Don't you have books to buy or something?

Re: Replies...
 

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Seriously though, get a life. That advice is worth much more than you'll ever win in poker.

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You sure told him. I bet you're the best player in your home game.

Re: Replies...
 

They do that every single raise in the Cincinnati Kid..... and it's even stated 'no string bets' but then again, no limit really meant no limit in that movie... not just table stakes (ie. I'll bet twice your net worth.... you can't call? tough luck)

Re: Replies...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Seriously though, get a life. That advice is worth much more than you'll ever win in poker.

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You sure told him. I bet you're the best player in your home game.

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nh

Re: Replies...
 

yesterday i ate an apple and found a worm inside.

Re: Replies...
 

Bad practice that you need to unlearn.

Announce the amount before you put ANY chips out there, and you can go back to your stack ONCE to complete your announced bet

Re: Replies...
 

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yesterday i ate an apple and found a worm inside.

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This is by far my favorite thread right now.

Re: Replies...
 

Am I the only one that finds the guy at the table who "catches" the string bets (and then procedes to educate everyone what a string bet is) more anoying than the guy who actually makes the string bet?

Re: Replies...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that finds the guy at the table who "catches" the string bets (and then procedes to educate everyone what a string bet is) more anoying than the guy who actually makes the string bet?

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I'm sure the OP - as the best player in his home game - would agree with you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Replies...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Seriously though, get a life. That advice is worth much more than you'll ever win in poker.

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You sure told him. I bet you're the best player in your home game.

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wow you are really dumb. he said it a bunch of times cant you read? he is the best player in his home game!

Re: Your call?
 

Very annoying, I guess every home game has the same type of player.....holds a large stack in his hand, drops one chip at a time counting out his "raise".......while hoping that it will eventually be enough to make everyone fold!
There is nothing "picky" about setting rules, even if it is a friendly home game......if you plan on raising the pot, just say raise, decide on the amount and put it in the pot...simple and fast.

Re: Your call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Very annoying, I guess every home game has the same type of player.....holds a large stack in his hand, drops one chip at a time counting out his "raise".......while hoping that it will eventually be enough to make everyone fold!

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Would it be considered 'angling' if I stated 'raise' and then proceeded to do exactly what this guy described?

Would your answer change if I were the best player in my home game?

Re: Replies...
 

different casinos have different rules so your "casino" should also. You should announce the amount prior to crossing the betting line or all chips that cross the betting line are your bet. In addition if the bet is say 50 and you hold 80 in your hand as you cross your betting line then you are committed to raise(since you hold more than 1.5 times the bet) which would make your bet 100. if you held 60 then it is a call. pretty simply system that would reduce string bet arguments. say there are 3 people in the pot on the flop and utg bets 50 and you have 500 in your hand and bring it out across the betting line and player 3 folds immediately you have just gained info prior to making your bet and you glance at utg who looks worried and now you know u can raise and take the pot....that's 1 reason for using the rule I described

Re: Your call?
 

The other day I went to a midget convention. I was the tallest guy in the room.

Re: Your call?
 

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The other day I went to a midget convention. I was the tallest guy in the room.

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Were you also the best player in the room? 'cuz if so...You mighta had something going there....

Re: Your call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
you win. it's not a string bet because you hadn't completed your action.

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