Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

I would like some more input please.

Preflop- Been having trouble with what I thought may be over aggression with JJ. I don't think limping with JJ is terrible at all though. I thought there was support for playing JJ this passive preflop. If I didnt mind being wrong, I wouldnt post hands like this.

Flop- I raised a good amount I thought. My other options were pushing, calling or raising more. Cold calling would have been terrible on the flop. The pot is 60, the bet is 50 (pot 110). Was my raise too small?

The cold call behind from both of them made me think. The turn card is not friendly.

Turn- With an unfriendly card completing a possible flush draw I wanted information. The call from smoke1977 on the flop really worried me. I threw out the min bet to test them both. I wanted to get HU, but if I saw too much action I was gone.

I felt that any bet worth while committed me so pushing was better then betting. Isnt this a situation where I am way ahead or way behind? Do I have enough outs to dry push this?

If I really played this like a complete donk then my poker sense is broken in an abouts this area. I felt uneasy about the play a little, but I ddint think it was bad enough to get this kind of response.

Please help.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

Preflop: I raise here because I know I'm a favorite to flop at least an overpair, but limping and raising are so close in value that limping is also a fine play.

Flop: You're playing it straight up and I think that's the best way to do it at the 11's about 98.5% of the time, including here.

Turn: Was the minbet a misclick? It's not big enough to be a blocker and also not big enough for a value bet. After the raise, I'm not folding with ten clean outs plus the flush redraw, especially at the tens where there's even a chance I'm ahead of top pair and two pair.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: I raise here because I know I'm a favorite to flop at least an overpair, but limping and raising are so close in value that limping is also a fine play.

Flop: You're playing it straight up and I think that's the best way to do it at the 11's about 98.5% of the time, including here.

Turn: Was the minbet a misclick? It's not big enough to be a blocker and also not big enough for a value bet. After the raise, I'm not folding with ten clean outs plus the flush redraw, especially at the tens where there's even a chance I'm ahead of top pair and two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds more like the response I anticipated.

I folded to the turn raise.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

I must be really tired. I can't imagine ever folding this. I would call expecting to have the best hand. You guys must play poker in an entirely different world if you are even considering a fold.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

SS, food for thought.

Some basics. I think you're raising JJ here for value. Remember, these knuckleheads are gonna make lots of mistakes. Furthermore, think about how the pot is gonna look after the flop especially if you flop all unders. One, you want to be able to make a bet that will protect your hand, and two, you want to eliminate the blinds from calling without being able to put them on some kind of hand (which of course isn't always possible).

Your flop raise was very good, and their subsequent flush chasing calls are their continued mistakes. But, you can't fold, then you're now making the mistake. You have to call the turn bet with 10:1 pot odds. I know we all like to think we're better than the field, but it's really tough to think you're better than the odds, especially these ones. Call, and make a river decision.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

Only Blue Feet should be allowed to have their name highlighted blue.

NH

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

Preflop: If there are a number of limpers and raising a reasonable amount would dent your stack you can limp, but you have too much value here to just call. Try to close out some opponents with a raise.

Flop: I Like the flop raise on a board that has this coordination, but I think the raise is too large. Anyone else with me? I think a somewhat smaller raise (ie. to t200 or so) accomplishes the same.

Turn: I really don't see what the minbet is about. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but betting t15 into a t900+ pot isn't going to accomplish anything meaningful. I understand that you suspect that you're behind but between your 10 outs and the distinct possibility that you're still good here you have to call this and make a river decision.

-SonnyJay

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

[ QUOTE ]
***** Hand History for Game 2857138496 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 16467417) - Tue Oct 18 20:17:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 35259 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: MIC61892 (895)
Seat 2: walletDump (1235)
Seat 3: P0t_Commit3d (800)
Seat 4: DENTMASTERB (455)
Seat 5: K8394772 (775)
Seat 6: smoke1977 (740)
Seat 7: Bigduck85 (795)
Seat 8: poxyman (705)
Seat 9: lone_dopey (800)
Seat 10: bigj0e03z (800)
Bigduck85 posts small blind (10)
poxyman posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to P0t_Commit3d [ Jd, Jh ]
lone_dopey folds.
bigj0e03z folds.
MIC61892 folds.
walletDump calls (15)
P0t_Commit3d calls (15)
DENTMASTERB folds.
K8394772 folds.
smoke1977 calls (15)
Bigduck85 calls (5)
poxyman checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Kh, 9h, Jc ]
Bigduck85 checks.
poxyman bets (50)
walletDump folds.
P0t_Commit3d raises (275) to 275
smoke1977 calls (275)
Bigduck85 folds.
poxyman calls (225)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5h ]
poxyman checks.
P0t_Commit3d bets (15)
smoke1977 raises (125) to 125
poxyman calls (125)

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet the flop since your in Mid-late position, I like the flop raise. You should call the turn b/c you're getting 9:1 from pot and you have a set and Jh incase another heart hits river. You could also improve on river w/ another J or pairing the board, and you could have best hand already w/ the other 2 chasing.

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

[ QUOTE ]
SS, food for thought.

Some basics. I think you're raising JJ here for value. Remember, these knuckleheads are gonna make lots of mistakes. Furthermore, think about how the pot is gonna look after the flop especially if you flop all unders. One, you want to be able to make a bet that will protect your hand, and two, you want to eliminate the blinds from calling without being able to put them on some kind of hand (which of course isn't always possible).

Your flop raise was very good, and their subsequent flush chasing calls are their continued mistakes. But, you can't fold, then you're now making the mistake. You have to call the turn bet with 10:1 pot odds. I know we all like to think we're better than the field, but it's really tough to think you're better than the odds, especially these ones. Call, and make a river decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't reply any better than this...

Re: $11 JJ laydown... good bad?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: I raise here because I know I'm a favorite to flop at least an overpair, but limping and raising are so close in value that limping is also a fine play.

Flop: You're playing it straight up and I think that's the best way to do it at the 11's about 98.5% of the time, including here.

Turn: Was the minbet a misclick? It's not big enough to be a blocker and also not big enough for a value bet. After the raise, I'm not folding with ten clean outs plus the flush redraw, especially at the tens where there's even a chance I'm ahead of top pair and two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this.