Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

Im playing a 15%vpip/7.5%pfr style. I seem to get called plenty of the time playing like this, but seem to only get action when I don't hit, or end up getting busted by a set.

It seems like Im not getting these players into the situations where they make the biggest mistakes.

Ive tried the weak-tight pf route, that doesnt really work due to the amount of pre flop raising done by the opponents. I tried raising only my Aq-Ak, 99-AA hands, this doesnt seem to work either.

The players still seem to catch me with my pants down consistently. I raise large amounts (8xbb instead of the common 4x).

Anyone care to comment on how you play this level? I just cant seem to beat these players for a decent winrate.

I would consider the way things have played out to be a bad run, but this type of thing has happened over the course of 30k hands, and very consistently at that.

Thanks to anyone in advance.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

Post hands. Answer other peoples hand posts.

I think your VPIP is a bit too low personally. Mine hovers right around 20. Your big pair hands arent really going to win you that many big pots. You win big pots with your implied odds hands, suited connectors and small to medium pocket pairs.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

If you want to make money, drop your pfr% to something like 4%. The donks at 100 full are mostly calling stations...random bluffing is -EV. Save your bluffs to specific situations and specific reads.

And don't raise to 8 preflop. Raise to 4 with any hand, regardless of limpers, except in a *very* passive/loose table. Anyone who recommends 6+BB (or, 6BB+ 1 per limper) more hasn't played much at 100NL full.

Finally, don't push it. Wait for the right situations and cards.

edited to add: From what you describe (getting caught with pants down, no action on good hands), I suspect you're giving some sort of tell...taking more time, betting different amounts, etc. Worth checking out.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

Thanks for the responses everyone. I guess i forgot to mention that I am playing 6max, important detail i know. As for giving a tell, I try to always take the same amount of time when its my turn to act, and always bet the same amounts to avoid a tell.

I chose to raise to 8x the bb because the people at the tables were calling this amount, I thought this would be good because it would cut down on implied odds/get more money in the pot while I had what was likely the best hand. Isnt the reason to only raise 4x the bb to make sure you get a call?

I was almost wondering if raising 8x the bb is provoking these players to try and find out if my pants are down.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the responses everyone. I guess i forgot to mention that I am playing 6max, important detail i know. As for giving a tell, I try to always take the same amount of time when its my turn to act, and always bet the same amounts to avoid a tell.

I chose to raise to 8x the bb because the people at the tables were calling this amount, I thought this would be good because it would cut down on implied odds/get more money in the pot while I had what was likely the best hand. Isnt the reason to only raise 4x the bb to make sure you get a call?

I was almost wondering if raising 8x the bb is provoking these players to check if my pants are down.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you raise ti 8x, then you arent gonna get played with very often, and when you do, it will be only by the stronger hands, who will then have a good chance to get your stack if they hit.

If you raise 8x with JJ, and get raised ... what do you do ?
If you raise 8x with AA, get called and the flop comes T85, you bet pot (16x), get a call, what is left to bet on the turn ? - Pot is now 48 and you have about 75 left, what is your turn play on a non-ace card ?

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

I usually get the opponent pot commited on the turn, this is what I did at the 25s and 50s and it paid great dividends. Obviously stuff is different at the 100s because these people arent paying off like they used to be.

Im going to try and raise to 4x then add 1 per limper. Ill check it out I guess and see how it goes.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess i forgot to mention that I am playing 6max

[/ QUOTE ]
Disregard everything I said. I assumed 10 handed because of your incredibly low VPIP - it's even borderline for 10 handed.

A while back at bet-the-pot someone did an analysis of optimal VPIP/PFR ratio. Interesting, the graph of win rate vs ratio followed a parabola, with maximum at VPIP:PFR of 4:1. That means 16/4, 20/5, 28/7, etc. Just food for thought.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

Ok, Ya I guess I need to play more hands. Everyone seems to say this, but I just dont see the spots at the 6max. These people love to fight every raised flop it seems, yet they also raise plenty.

Basically, my limps seem to get eaten up far too often by raises, yet when I raise I seem to get eaten up far too much on flops. So I tried to find the middle ground, I thought this was it.

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

You arent playing poker if youre 15/7.5 at 6max. You can nut peddle like that at 25s and make cash, but the players at the 100 level are slightly more aggro. Your pfr is a little low, but fine - you need to start limping more hands from EP and marginal ones (suited gappers, Axs) from LP with limpers ahead of you. Drop down to the 50s for a few thousand hands for you if you feel uncomfortable doing this

Re: Trouble at the 100nl on party
 

Maybe your style of play is not well suited for short handed. We really don't know much about your style, b/c it's just a general post. But you might want to play a few weeks of full ring games and see how it goes. You might find in more conducive to your natural style.