Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

My game tends to be a lot of ABC poker, and I need to work on being more aggressive in situations that warrant it, such as this hand, in which I flop mid pair + OESD to a preflop raise, and then pick up a flush draw on the turn as well. I'd like thoughts on all streets as played (excluding the PF open-limp, which I know is stupid and I normally don't do) as well as potential other lines. I was basically trying to represent a set as "obviously" as possible, and still have a billion outs if I got called.

Villain is 45/32/1.75 through 40 hands. This hand breaks the converter, I'll do my best to pretty it up.

Texas Hold'em $1-$1 NL (real money)

Seat 1: Seat1 ($145.90 in chips)
Seat 2: Seat2 ($121.50 in chips)
Seat 3: Seat3 ($106.50 in chips)
Seat 4: Seat4 ($59.40 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($112.90 in chips)
Seat 6: Seat6 ($146.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Seat7 ($131 in chips)
Seat 8: Seat8 ($74.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Villain ($109.60 in chips)
Seat 10: Seat10 ($288.80 in chips)

Hero is UTG+1 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
ANTES/BLINDS
Seat2 posts blind ($0.50), Seat3 posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
Seat4 folds, Hero calls $1, Seat6 folds, Seat7 folds, Seat8 calls $1, Villain bets $3, Seat10 calls $3, Seat1 folds, Seat2 folds, Seat3 calls $2, Hero calls $2, Seat8 folds.

FLOP ($13.50) [board cards 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
Seat3 checks, Hero checks, Villain bets $10, Seat10 calls $10, Seat3 folds, Hero calls $10.

TURN ($43.50) [board cards 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Hero checks, Villain bets $25, Seat10 folds, Hero bets $80, Villain bets $71.60 and is all-in, Hero calls $16.60.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

you shouldn't limp utg w/ 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

on the flop lead.

on the turn why are you getting most of your chips in with a draw? he's not folding any of his hands to your raise?

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

I am happy you posted this because I've wanted to ask the following question:

Is a raise to $35 or $40 on the flop a good idea?

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

i think it's fine limping utg with 65s, as long as you're not really deep.

instead of check/calling the flop, i would lead into the raiser with 9

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

Ok, so I lead the flop - how do I handle these scenarios?

1. Villain raises - big re-raise/push?
2. Villain calls, turn is a brick (say, 2s)
3. Villain calls, turn gives me the FD (like in the real hand)

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's fine limping utg with 65s, as long as you're not really deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the exact opposite is true.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

As played, just call the turn. You're getting immediate odds to draw to your 7 thousand outs, even if you don't get anymore in on the river when you hit.

The time to get aggressive with big draws is the flop when you still have 2 cards to come.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think it's fine limping utg with 65s, as long as you're not really deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure the exact opposite is true.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, saying its ok as long as you are not really deep is a big misunderstanding of the game.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's fine limping utg with 65s, as long as you and your opponent ARE relatively deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

Hi all,

I suggest to push on the flop. I want to maximize fold equity against weak hands and apply pressure on better hands.

Villian might fold draws, small overpairs (fearing you limped with a big overpair), TPTK etc. As these villians/seat 10s most likley holdings giving them a card to improve makes no sense to me.

Villians/Seat 10s most likely calling hands are two pair, set or a straight.

If you push into a set well you still got 8 outs. Pot equity should be around 35% to 40%.

A straight, oh well....

I do not like the turn reraise. If villian is bluffing a smaller reraise will do. If villian holds something (I think he does) that beats you most likley UTG limping hands which are worth a call on the flop (You say that you play ABC poker so the range is quite small) a 9 is scary to villian but not the end of the world and he might be able put you on the diamond flush/straight draw semi bluff with a set as worst case. So if you want to play for your stack it might be better to semi bluff reraise a smaller amount and than bluff on the river if none of your outs hits to represent the set/straight/big pair whatever. A call might be okay but many of your outs kill the action so I would not expect a big payoff.

To me pushing with a wider range of hands is a meta game thing and affects all other playing decisions because it changes your table image. So I think it is important to see the big picture and also check if your "normal" play is suited to take maximum advantage of the "new" table image.

Have a nice day
Chris

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think it's fine limping utg with 65s, as long as you're not really deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm definitely sure the exact opposite is true.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should lead this flop. The raise on the turn seems like chip spewing to me bc if villains is one who is incapable of folding an overpair you should wait until you make your hand to put your chips in. As played i am calling turn, though i hate it and pushing river if i hit.

This is one of those instances that illustrates why you should have folded preflop, IMO, because you got a decent flop and now you are OOP, probably behind but still can't reasonably find a fold. Not the best situation.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

Thank you for the replies, everyone. Villain had 74o (bizarre, and I guess serves me right for not paying closer attention to how he was playing - but, whether it was 74o or AA I had to play the hand knowing I was behind, so it doesn't really matter) and I missed on the river. I'll try to post more hands like this in the future as I work on this aspect of my game, because I'm not going to get very far if I can't be aggressive without a made hand.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

You shouldn't just be aggressive for its own sake. You want to raise with draws for specific reasons - to get (incorrect) folds, to disguise your hand for better implied odds (this rarely works), to buy a free card on the turn (again this is rarely correct), or some combination.

For example, raising a good draw in last position on the flop is nice because A) it builds the pot if you hit, B) he may just fold, which is nice, C) if he pushes, you can often correctly call, D) he may check the turn E) it puts you in the lead, so if he checks the turn & river you may be able to bet unimproved and win the pot with a pure bluff.

A very rough guideline for semi-bluffing with your whole stack is that you should never do it unless it's pretty likely they will fold a better hand. If not, just call if you are getting correct odds.

Re: Expanding my horizons: playing draws aggressively
 

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't just be aggressive for its own sake. You want to raise with draws for specific reasons - to get (incorrect) folds, to disguise your hand for better implied odds (this rarely works), to buy a free card on the turn (again this is rarely correct), or some combination.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many times, when this situation comes up, the draw is actually ahead (ie TP+FD vs overpair). In these instances you're being aggressive on the flop because you're actually ahead with two cards to come. In this case you want to get your money in NOW while you're ahead. If you don't get it in on the flop then you're going to be a dog on the turn if you don't hit.