Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

Two players see a flop. Let's say SB vs. BB for ease of explination (it doesn't matter).

There was a raise preflop to, say, 200 by the BB and it was called by the SB (after he open limped).

On the flop is A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB has t875 behind.
BB has around t1400 behind.

SB checks
BB grabs a bunch of chips from a mixed stack of t25's and t100's and plops them out as a bet. Dealer isn't asked for and doesn't offer up a count of how many chips the bet is. SB thinks for a bit and says (I'll try to get this exact):

"Let's do it"
Exposes his hand (Qd8d for flush draw)
then grabs all his chips and puts them in front of him (past the betting line)

BB doesn't do anything except ask for a count. It comes to 875 and then they count his initial bet and it comes out to 700, so there is still t175 worth of 'action'.
BB claims that SB's hand is dead and wants a ruling.

That is exactly what happened and was explained to the floor by the dealer perfectly and there was no dispute over the facts of the action.

What is the correct ruling? (note that everyone knew that SB assumed that the bet covered him and his intent was not to shoot an angle for the remaining t175)

The floor is very experienced (has worked the WSOP before) and made what I thought was a surprising ruling.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

Why can't people just say "all-in"?

"Let's do it"? wtf?

That said, I don't think a hand should be ruled dead for exposing itself, and certainly not in heads up play. So BB now has to deal with knowledge of his opponents' cards... I'd take that any day of the week.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why can't people just say "all-in"?

"Let's do it"? wtf?

That said, I don't think a hand should be ruled dead for exposing itself, and certainly not in heads up play. So BB now has to deal with knowledge of his opponents' cards... I'd take that any day of the week.

[/ QUOTE ]

it wouldn't have been any different if you change the 'let's do it' to 'let's do it, i'm all in'. this isn't a string raise question.

the fact that it's heads up has no bearing on this situation since it's a tournament.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

wasn't there just a thread yesterday saying exposed hands are not killed but instead the player is just penalized?

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

[ QUOTE ]
wasn't there just a thread yesterday saying exposed hands are not killed but instead the player is just penalized?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes there was.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

Hand is dead.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

In a purely textualist sense, I believe the hand is dead. I'm no expert, but I think the rule is that exposing your hand before acting will dead your hand. Clearly, saying "let's do it" is not "acting" on your hand. That said, SB put chips in after the exposure so those chips are not included in the pot (i.e. BB wins only the preflop pot plus his bet).

On the other hand, the purpose of the rule, IMHO, is to prevent card exposures from ruining multi-way action or to prevent collusion. This is not the case here. In HU action, no 3rd party can be harmed. Therefore, card exposures ought not dead a hand, SB will still be live, and he acted on his hand by moving in.

I have a feeling the first approach is more commonly used...

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

Problem is he exposes his hand before BB has decided to call or not. Not that BB would ever fold, or should be unhappy about gaining this info.

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

Where I play, SB's hand is dead.

(And BB gets beaten up in the parking lot)

Re: Tournament Ruling: You make the call
 

It makes a huge difference. If you are to say that exposure results in a dead hand, then the pot is won by BB at the point when the cards are exposed. In the OP, SB put chips in after exposing his hand. Verbal actions are binding. "let's do it" is not an action. "let's do it - I'm all-in" IS an action.