If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

NL 400, 6 max. Villain seems TAG and solid-- although that read is only after playing w/ him for like 5-10 minutes. I've had reads like that change after much longer times playing with seemingly good players, until they display some horrific poker.

Anyways, Effective stacks are 450 ish.

I pot raise to 14 UTG, folds to SB, he raises to 40 ish, folds to me I call (good? I usually just fold unimproved on flop, so I'm clearly getting good implied odds.)

Flop TJJ 2 spades (80ish in pot) He bets 60 I call.

Turn 2 of spades (3 spades up) (200 in pot) He checks, I bet 100, he thinks for 10 seconds and calls.

River-- offsuit Ace. Villain Pushes for ~250

I know theres so much in the pot...

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

um, what hand are you holding?

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

your hand plz

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Got to be TT

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Got to be TT

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, its tens. My bad.


Nice read [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

i would be betting more than 1/2 pot on the turn.. more like 2/3-3/4 or PSB

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

tens.. oh god insta call please

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i would be betting more than 1/2 pot on the turn.. more like 2/3-3/4 or PSB

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldnt we assume villain has:

1) AA/KK no spade- a pot sized bet- there is a very good chance he folds

2) AA/KK spade, he is way more likely to call 100, than 200, and he commits more chips if a spade falls.

30 AK w/ a spade- He calls 100 but not 200 probably, either way he is drawing dead, so I think 100 is better.

Where am I off?

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

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tens.. oh god insta call please

[/ QUOTE ]

I know.. but villain basically is announcing he has AA...

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
know.. but villain basically is announcing he has AA...

[/ QUOTE ]
Or KQ...

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

or AK

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Raise the flop.

He ain't gonna believe you.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Uh, notice the PF action? Notice the 3 spades up? notice the paired board? I think KQo is all but impossible. I think a real question is, is AK spades possible here.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
or AK

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think we see AK here.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i would be betting more than 1/2 pot on the turn.. more like 2/3-3/4 or PSB

[/ QUOTE ]

Shouldnt we assume villain has:

1) AA/KK no spade- a pot sized bet- there is a very good chance he folds

2) AA/KK spade, he is way more likely to call 100, than 200, and he commits more chips if a spade falls.

30 AK w/ a spade- He calls 100 but not 200 probably, either way he is drawing dead, so I think 100 is better.

Where am I off?

[/ QUOTE ]

at this point i dont think the difference of $50 more is going to matter..

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Maybe he's hoping you're good enough to know that. If he really had AA and knows that you have a hand that's worth some action, won't he try to check-raise here sometimes?

I just think there's > 0% chance that the opponent is bluffing here. How often does he need to bluff in order for a call to be +EV?

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

he can have any two spades.. i'm not reading too much into pre flop action cuz the guys in this game jack it up like crazy pre flop

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
he can have any two spades.. i'm not reading too much into pre flop action cuz the guys in this game jack it up like crazy pre flop

[/ QUOTE ]
eh. not too much really.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

ok then fold.. he has AA

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop.

He ain't gonna believe you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you want to let AK off the hook that easily? I don't.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Do you wanna stack off on the flop with AA/KK? I do.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

we see AK with one spade alot here. I insta call. Anwone who wants to fold is crazy. we only need to win once in 3.5 times. I promise we are ahead at least 1 in three times and therefore insta call that shiiiiiit

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

yea dude call this is AsKs, AK w/one spade like a bajillion times here

also bet more on the turn

also raise flop

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

FWIW, I think this is AA more than it is AK. I'm not saying that it isn't AK enough to call here with comfort, but I think I will be shown AA here a lot.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

he is not announcing AA... AJ is is very real, Aspade. I don't think he has AA... and if he does.. he paid(no implied) for his longshot draw. It is a short handed game, so pre flop raising standards are much less then in a full ring. The only hand I fear is AJ, or KQ(is great for us), both of which are real raising hands in short handed games. I call, and hope he slow played the flush... which is what it looks like... appeared weak on turn, then called. Or a hand like QQ KK or AQ AK.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

I think AJ is also all but impossible. Listen, its 6 max, and its nl400, but people don't repop preflop OOP with KQ or AJ, almost ever.

If he is the type that would do this, I think I would have noticed by now if he was reraising with all sorts of crappy hands pf.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he can have any two spades.. i'm not reading too much into pre flop action cuz the guys in this game jack it up like crazy pre flop

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eh. not too much really.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is party...yes they do [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]...

-JP

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

NL 400 for the most part, is a loose passive game. It isn't high- or low enough- for it to be super aggressive.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
he is not announcing AA... AJ is is very real, Aspade. I don't think he has AA... and if he does.. he paid(no implied) for his longshot draw. It is a short handed game, so pre flop raising standards are much less then in a full ring. The only hand I fear is AJ, or KQ(is great for us), both of which are real raising hands in short handed games. I call, and hope he slow played the flush... which is what it looks like... appeared weak on turn, then called. Or a hand like QQ KK or AQ AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to see monsters under the bed, but I can see playing JJ this way. He wants you to think he has AK with a single spade (or maybe he does) because you get a standard CB followed a check/call on the turn and a push on the river ace. Smells like AK, but I suspect it might be a monster.

Having said that I still call with TT because I am not disciplined enough (yet) to lay this hand down.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
NL 400 for the most part, is a loose passive game. It isn't high- or low enough- for it to be super aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we playing int he same 2/4 6 max party?...PF theres a lot of RR'ing, a lot of crap minraises on the flop, a lot of autobets when you check the turn?

-JP

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
NL 400 for the most part, is a loose passive game. It isn't high- or low enough- for it to be super aggressive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we playing int he same 2/4 6 max party?...PF theres a lot of RR'ing, a lot of crap minraises on the flop, a lot of autobets when you check the turn?

-JP

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with all of those except the preflop reraising part. I just don't see it all that often.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Tough hand. Folding is probably correct, but I probably never do. Of course, this asssumes your read is correct and this guy is somewhat sane.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

I dont understand the purpose of posting a hand asking for advice and then arguing with every piece of advice you get.

Youre playing poker the best you can. You ask for advice about tough hands like everyone does, but then you disagree with everyones advice.

Most of the people who are responding are playing in these same games that you are, so either play the game in your own little vaccuum and dont post.....or post your hands and open your mind to other people poker experiences and maybe you'll learn something.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dont understand the purpose of posting a hand asking for advice and then arguing with every piece of advice you get.

Youre playing poker the best you can. You ask for advice about tough hands like everyone does, but then you disagree with everyones advice.

Most of the people who are responding are playing in these same games that you are, so either play the game in your own little vaccuum and dont post.....or post your hands and open your mind to other people poker experiences and maybe you'll learn something.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disagreeing, I'm exploring other possibilities. I didn't ask people if NL400 players reraise AJ preflop, that's just something that people have said, which I disagree with.

I didn't disagree with people who said this is AK a lot of the time, I merely question the frequency with which I would be shown that hand.

Get off my case.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
tens.. oh god insta call please

[/ QUOTE ]

I know.. but villain basically is announcing he has AA...

[/ QUOTE ]

first, i think folding this river is bad. second, if he is a thinking player (or whatever read u had he was decent) why would he want to play AA this way. if he was pushing the river with AA what hands would villain expect to call often? all underfulls, flushes, most J's. (i guess the str8 sometimes) of these hands how many are NOT betting the river for value? plus he loses value the times u have a weak j or weak flush and fold or u are on air and are not allowed to bluff at the pot.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Check my math but isn't it closer to 2.5 to 1? 650 pot, 250 more to call the bet...I maybe wrong still not real quick with the math...esp in the fly.

Z [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

Folding here is just scared poker. The pot is too big and your hand is too strong to let it go. People do bizarre things in big pots. AA with a spade would generally either bet the turn, or call your bet fairly quickly. On the other hand, his turn play is very consistent with AsKx or something. Pushing the river here with AK might not be the best play, but most poker players do make bad plays. I'm actually not even sure that pushing would be too terrible... something along the lines of "the pot is too big for me to fold this hand, and he will call a bet with a wider range than he will bet with, so it's better for me to just bet myself." On the other hand, he could also have KK and be thinking "omg, I bet he has the ace of spades! Maybe if I push he'll give me credit for the jack and fold!" On the other hand, he might have a "slowplayed" trip jacks if he had gotten out of line preflop.

There are just way too few ways you're beaten here and there's lots of money in the pot. I'm not going to lose any sleep over paying off a half pot river bet when someone hits a two-outer on me.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Uh, notice the PF action?

[/ QUOTE ]
My response was right after I woke up and I didn't consider the preflop action. Preflop action does rule out KQ. I responded to both of your posts this morning and am a little annoyed that you chose to ignore one and act like a bitch in the other. You are no longer worth my time.

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

This post is a joke from soemone who knows they go broke here 100% right? right? right? right?right? right? right? right? right? right?v right?right? vright?right?v

Re: If there was ever a time to fold a boat... (NL400 6/max)
 

I think this is JJ...

Not QQ or KK......Preflop looks a lot like AA...But I think u see JJ here more than AA.....