Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

PP $100NL, full ring.

Hero ($~55) is in BB with J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. 3 limpers. SB folds. Hero raises to $7. One caller (has hero covered) in MP.

Flop ($17): Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets $15. Villain raises all-in. Hero calls.

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Similar hand at a different table.

Hero (~$60) has Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG, raises to $4. MP2 and MP3 call. SB calls. BB folds.

Flop (~$20): J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB open pushes for $38. Hero pushes for ($55). MP2, MP3 fold.

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

Hand 1, I'd typically fold. Hand 2, definitely read dependent.

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

Well, you're playing with a shortstack so the all in raise in hand 1 is not exactly that much. You bet 15 and have 33 behind and he puts you all in. The pot is now 65 and only 33 to call. Seems like you ought to call here barring a read on the opponent that says otherwise.

Hand 2 I like.

Why don't you buy in for $100?

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

I've been experimenting buying in short since I read Barry Greenstein's book, and he advocates it. So far so good. I actually don't think it changes anything, but my stack size forces me to make better decisions . . . I make less incorrect calls chasing flushes, etc. since my "implied odds" are never as good. I should probably just figure out how to do this with full stack size.

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

Hand 1 I see a fold a pretty much the only clear choice. What hand do you think he'd do something like that to you with? Certainly not air... which is pretty much all you beat. Even 99 and TT I see him calling for the info that the turn provides.

Hand 2, it has always been my thinking that people that play at 6 max NL games with less than the full amount (Greenstein strategies aside) should not be given the full amount of respect. Often its weak players on their last dimes, hopeing to make some magic happen, and usually they are out of line. I call shoves similar to this when its an all in by someone with only a 25% max stack or so. Good call, pretty sure you drag there...

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

Hand 1 I have no idea what the villain has. What hands make sense for him to limp/call a large raise? To me, AQ/KQ/QJ/QT are not likely in this situation. I can't peg him on AA/KK/QQ because he didn't raise pre-flop. That only leaves 44. Additionally, if he had such a strong hand, wouldn't he want a call instead of trying to get me to fold? The only hand I could think that made any sense at all was a flush draw trying to push me off, or a mid pocket pair thinking I had whiffed with AK/etc.

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

Don't discount the AQ or the KQ hands so quickly, and maybe not even the QJ hands either. Some players make those calls. $6 with no implied odds sorta rules out 44, so dont worry TOO much about that one.

But if I was that villain, and I had a Q in the hole with that flop and that action, I'd shove there too.

Trip Q shoves there because A) your large PF raise (which I agree with) suggests a premium hand. Maybe a big pocket pair, or some big suited broadways. Either way, if that is what the villain thinks you have, they need to raise you there and then, while they still have the best of it. Any card T or higher COULD potentially get them stacked, as could a spade. So shoving with the best of it makes their shove good. B) you started with ~$55. You raised to $7. You led out for $15. If they shove there you would be getting about 8:3 on your call. If you had the spades you'd call that with two cards to come and I think you might be too committed to fold if you had AA or KK. Even if you weren't they might think you were. They could have had a Q.

Re: Strange Action -- JJ vs. an all-in raise
 

[ QUOTE ]

I've been experimenting buying in short since I read Barry Greenstein's book, and he advocates it. So far so good. I actually don't think it changes anything, but my stack size forces me to make better decisions . . . I make less incorrect calls chasing flushes, etc. since my "implied odds" are never as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this changes everything actually. 50BB limits you mainly to playing flops and big broadways/pairs. Calling even a standard raise in hoping to hit can be marginal-bad since you approach calling 10% of your stack. With stacks like this you engage much more often in kicker wars for your stack. Whether you prefer making that decision rather than playing past the flop and hoping your bets have some fold equity and including a wider range of hands is largely what you are more comfortable with/play better doing.

EDIT, as in hand 1, a PSB most often commits you when you do play a hand. Most shorties I will put to felt when I have some kind of decent hand and they make a bet because of this.