BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

I recall reading in GSIHE that learning how to play flush draws is important and can be very profitable. I'm pretty sure I played this terribly. I'm not sure I had the right odds to call 2 back to me on the flop (I'm not even sure I should have bet on the flop) and then after I got my flush on the river I didn't bet...so I'm not proud of this hand. Please grunch away and let me know how you would have played it.

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls $0.04 (All-In).

River: (16.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players, 1 all-in)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

On the flop you're about 35% for your four-flush to turn into a flush by the river, so as long as 3 people are in the pot with you you're making money, since you're 35% to make your hand but only putting in 25% of the money. You can reduce the 35% a little since you're not drawing to the ace-high flush, but two-card flush over two-card flush is pretty rare, so 30-32% is probably about right, and you're still ok with 3 other players.

Add to that that you've got outs to two-pair or better since you paired your 2 on the flop (and those outs don't interfere with your flush outs since the jack and deuce of diamonds are already out) and you've got 14 cards that make you a very strong hand.

Since there wasn't a preflop raise, I think betting this flop is your best bet, as you don't want it checking through. If (say) UTG+2 had raised preflop, or (say) UTG was a known maniac that would bet out any flop, you might check hoping somebody else would bet and you could check-raise, pumping the pot for your flush draw, but in this case I think betting out was the best course. (Note that if you checked and it wasn't bet until MP2 or CO you wouldn't want to raise because you wouldn't want to blow out the field.) I think it's fine to call when it's 2 back to you since you know you've got at least 3 players in the hand with you (MP1, MP2 and CO).

Turn check-call is perfect.

You need to raise this river. MP2 is betting top-pair good kicker, not a better flush. When the action gets to you there's only one player left to act, so getting an extra bet out of two players (MP2 and CO paying off your raise) is better than an extra bet out of one player (UTG+1 overcalling, which isn't guaranteed, anyway).

There, how's that? Now I need more coffee.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

Welcome to the forums.

Flop: You have at least 11 outs here (9 diamonds + 2 deuces). That means by the river you'll have about a 42% chance of having the best hand by the river.

You'll likely have 4 or 5 people in with you on the flop if you cap it, so you're only putting in 20-25% of the money on the flop with a 42% chance of winning. So you're making money with every bet that goes in on the flop, so you should not only call it but also cap it. In almost every case, you should never fold a 2-card flush draw before the river unless there's a double-paired/tripped up board.

Turn is good; we've only got like a 20% chance of beind best by the river now. But us calling one more bet in a 12BB pot is like an 8% investment to make a 20% return. So we can call for value.

River definitely needs more aggression. I'd say you have the best hand over 90% of the time here. I'd bet out if I thought villain was going to wuss out and check behind, or I'd check-raise if Villain was aggressive.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

Checkraise the river. The rest is good.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: You have at least 11 outs here (9 diamonds + 2 deuces). That means by the river you'll have about a 42% chance of having the best hand by the river.

You'll likely have 4 or 5 people in with you on the flop if you cap it, so you're only putting in 20-25% of the money on the flop with a 42% chance of winning. So you're making money with every bet that goes in on the flop, so you should not only call it but also cap it. In almost every case, you should never fold a 2-card flush draw before the river unless there's a double-paired/tripped up board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with everything here but capping the flop. I worry that we might drive out MP1 and his overcards if he has to call 2, leaving us with only 2 opponents. Also, I think that soft-pedaling, here, helps to conceal our hand, making it more likely we can check-raise and trap the field for big bets on the turn or river.

I also agree with not folding a 2-card flush draw, but understand there's a difference between that and a backdoor flush draw (where you have 2 of the suit in your hand but only 1 flops).

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

You didnt play this hand that badly, but heres what I think.

Flush draws on the flop will come in about 1 in every 3 times by the river, so if you have at least 3 opponents in the hand it is correct to bet on the flop.

In your hand you also had a pair as well the flush draw, so you had 9 outs to make a flush and 5 outs to improve to 2 pair or a set. So betting on the flop was definitely correct.

You also should not worry too much about being beaten by a higher flush, because that does not happen very often (and the betting will usually give an indication if you are up against a higher flush).

I think you were also correct to call the 2 bets on the flop. In fact, I think capping the flop may have been even better, as I expect that there was a good chance that your opponents would all have called.

You were correct to call on the turn (and not raise), because the turn card did not improve your hand, but the pot was still more than big enough to make it worthwhile continuing. You were now about 4:1 to make your flush (9 outs), and about 2:1 to improve your hand (14 outs).

When you made your flush on the river, you would have been correct to raise MP2's bet. You could now only be beaten by a higher flush, and with MP2 betting on both the flop and turn it was more likely that he had something like Kx for top pair.

I hope that this is of help, and GSIHE is a good book to start with. May I suggest "Small Stakes Hold-Em" by the same author will be a good book to continue with.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

Wow, great feedback from everyone...thanks guys. I love this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

I would have played the flop exactly the same way. I like the bet with bottom pair + good flush draw in a large pot. I also like the call (I can also see capping to try to thin the field, but probably wouldn't have). You're getting 9.25-to-1 from the pot, and you have 11 outs (flush draw plus draw to trips), giving you 3.3-to-1 immediate odds, making a call correct.

I like the check-call on the turn, but again I can see betting in order to let someone raise to get others out.

I would probably have bet out the river, or possibly check-raised. I would not have simply check-called because I think you win here more than 50% of the time (probably well more than 75%), far more than your approximate 20% equity on the river.

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, great feedback from everyone...thanks guys. I love this forum. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

you say that now. wait 'til everyone rides you for a stupid play [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] welcome to the boards [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: BB Flush Draw - My First Winning Hand
 

River check/raise may be better if you have a good enough read that MP2 will bet. Otherwise, just bet out. The rest looks fine. You may or may not have capped the flop depending on how loose the other callers are.