Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

We know that when heads up, in LP with a draw, that raising on the Flop increases our +EV, if our opponent cooperates and just calls and then checks on the Turn.

I play live, primarily against the same 50 guys or so, 20 of which are my most common opponents. There are 2 who are aggressive and will NEVER let me make this play and I haven't been making it until recently.

One of these opponents open/raised in EP last week in our 20/40 game and everyone folded to me on the Button with J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I called. Everyone else folded.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I have the OESD with a backdoor flush draw.

EP bet and I raised and he re-raised and I called.
Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] bringing the flush on board.
EP checks, and I bet and he raises and I call.
River is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] giving me the straight.
EP checks, I bet, he says: "Nice catch, but playing JTs that way loses money long term," and mucks his AK face up.

I do not show but ask him how he figures I was betting with nothing but a draw and he tells me to figure it out for myself.

Well, I know how he knew, but I never gave him credit for being so perceptive, only for being an aggressive player.

So, my question is: How do you deal with an opponent like him in these type situations?
He was willing to raise on the Turn when the flush came, in order to force me to "prove" I had the flush by re-raising.
He did, however, have the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], giving him an out, so I only had 6 outs going into the River.

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

Why aren't you taking the free card on the turn?

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

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Why aren't you taking the free card on the turn?

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I'm betting to represent I was drawing to the flush. If he had not had the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] there is a good chance he folds, however, since he has it, he plays back at me. If I raise him again, he has no doubt I have the flush and calls and then has an out on the River card.
Like I said: He's an aggressive player. I do not believe I am putting in more bets without the best hand, than he is willing to put in the pot when I do.

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

I can relate to what you're saying here, especially the bit about the same guys in a live game. You want a free card when you raise the flop, and when he three bets and you just call it lets him know you are drawing. So, you put in $40 to see a free card, and now you're calling another $20 and he still has the lead, and you're probably going to pay for the river anyways, so why not four bet the flop? I've been able to do that and check behind on the turn more often than not. You save yourself one small bet when it works. I dont advocate capping a flop with an OESD, but when you raise to get a free card and he foils your plans, you might as well re-raise to represent a very strong hand in the hopes that he will check the turn, which they usually do.

I think you make a good play by betting the turn, and if he doesnt hold the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], you'll probably see a fold enought of the time for it to be profitable, and if not you still have outs. Unfortunately here, he held the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and played back at you, which really was a great play on his part IMO.

But do you see what i'm saying about 4-betting the flop when you're initial raise doesn't work? YOu're calling the turn bet anyways if you just call the three bet, (20+40=60)
but when you cap and he checks (20+20=40) the turn, you save one small bet, and I think it will confuse the hell out of him when you check behind on an UI turn. And if you make the A-high straight, you'll almost always get two bets out of him.

I'd really like someone to explain to me why this would be unprofitable if it succeeds in getting you a free card, which it usually does......

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

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I'd really like someone to explain to me why this would be unprofitable if it succeeds in getting you a free card, which it usually does ......

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If you are up against an aggressive player that won´t let you take freecards you shouldn´t make the flop raise in the first place. Since he did, putting in another raise in the hopes of that this aggressive player will check the turn is clearly a misstake. While it may not be as big of a misstake as the first raise it´s a misstake nonetheless...

A better play against aggressive opponents is to start calling the flop with your draws,weak hands and made hands alike. Then raise the Turn if you make your hand as he will most likely bet again on the Turn. If you then play regularly against him you can start to mix up your turn raises a bit. raise as a free SD play Semibluff plays and the likes.

what I´ve noticed is that after a while some will start to check their maringal hands on the turn as they are afraid of being raised. This will allow you to get your freecard for the price of 1 SB some of the time instead of paying 3-4 SB...

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

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I'd really like someone to explain to me why this would be unprofitable if it succeeds in getting you a free card, which it usually does......

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That's certainly become one expensive free card.

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

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So, my question is: How do you deal with an opponent like him in these type situations?

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You need to either play your made hands more aggressively against them, or play your drawing hands more passively against them.

I suspect you don't play your sets and 2 pair hands very aggressively because you want to get paid off when you have the goods.

Re: Raize on a draw v. Aggressive Player
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
...
Turn: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
...
River is the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
EP ... mucks his AK face up.
...
So, my question is: How do you deal with an opponent like him in these type situations?


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Bluff him on the river a lot. I would fold this hand PF also.