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-   -   FLUSH!!!!!!!!! (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=403422)

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 12:46 PM

FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Oopponent is 22/9 over 800+ hands.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $20 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($1998)
MP1 ($1842)
Hero ($3157)
MP3 ($2242.80)
CO ($370)
Button ($1819)
SB ($2315)
BB ($3011)
UTG ($7949.05)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $80</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls $60.

Flop: ($170) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $120</font>, BB calls $120.

Turn: ($410) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $300</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $800</font>, <font color="#CC3333"> Hero...?

Rococo 12-22-2005 12:49 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
I don't see how you can find a fold here, given the strong likelihood that Villain has A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x

mustmuck 12-22-2005 12:54 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Does everybody call the flop with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? I find myself folding (or raising) here because of the near impossibility of getting paid on a four flush board (esp. OOP).

flawless_victory 12-22-2005 12:58 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how you can find a fold here, given the strong likelihood that Villain has A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x

[/ QUOTE ]
holyshit, who said anything about folding?

12-22-2005 02:10 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
This looks like the nuts to me, if the BB knows what he's doing. I would think he would put you on A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax or A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kx maybe), but he doesn't look too worried about that since his raise is so small. Just make sure the river is the 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and you don't have to worry about it.

thabadguy 12-22-2005 02:13 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Apparently this hand is not so simple,that a CavMan could do it.

THATWACOKID 12-22-2005 02:45 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently this hand is not so simple,that a CavMan could do it.


[/ QUOTE ]

lol

nh

yvesaint 12-22-2005 02:49 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Apparently this hand is not so simple,that a CavMan could do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

CavMan like to comment on many hand, yet manage say so little so well

ononimo 12-22-2005 02:56 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
i'm new to this board so if this line reeks, let me know:

given your preflop raise, do you think the villain put you on a flopped flush? do you think the villain flopped a flush (obviously higher) himself?

given the rarity of either one happening independently, let alone simultaneously, and absent other reads, i'd put the villain on an A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] semi-bluff or a set (77 or 66) that was waiting for a non-heart to hit the turn so I'd smooth-call the turn bet.

if a non-heart hits the river, i'm most likely paying off any bet but folding to a large bet on a 4th heart on the river. if checked to me on the river, i'd think about value betting.

xorbie 12-22-2005 03:53 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax or he is a [censored] moron. For you guys thinking he has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x, why doesn't he check/raise the flop? Do you really think a TAG type player is calling an MP raise with Axo? Maybe A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Qx or A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Kx, which is really the only hand I can put him on that doesn't crush us and even that is drawing pretty live. It obviously depends on how villain plays, but if he's the more straight forward type (and 22/9 leads me to think he might be) I think it's closer to a fold than others are making it seem.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 04:01 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax

[/ QUOTE ]

AA does not have a set here. I agree with you though that the c/raise with just the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is unlikely as the flop is the time to make that move

AZK 12-22-2005 04:12 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Not if you are autobetting flops.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 04:16 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Not if you are autobetting flops.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? It seems that if I'm autobetting flops the c/raise on the flop is INCREDIBLY likely. How is it more liekly that he's waiting for the turn if I'm autobetting flops (which I was-how did you know?!?

psuasskicker 12-22-2005 05:44 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
I think A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K is a fairly possible (likely?) holding here.

I probably call the raise and evaluate the river. If it isn't a scary card I can't imagine folding.

I would also strongly consider reraising to say $1,600 or so with the intention of checking any river, and folding to a reraise.

- C -

AZK 12-22-2005 05:50 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
There's a higher likelihood that you fold to a turn bet than a flop one, no?

AZK 12-22-2005 05:51 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
I probably call the turn. Bet any non-heart river if checked to, call any non heart river bet that isn't gross (i.e. all in) and debate between any bet that is gross. Helps to know who opponent is, even though I don't play stars.

Rococo 12-22-2005 05:58 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax or he is a [censored] moron. For you guys thinking he has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x, why doesn't he check/raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this is very wrong. I know of several high limit players who post on this board who sometimes flat call with a set on a monatone board and blast the turn on a non-pairing card of a different suit. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x doesn't necessarily raise the flop here either (especially against very aggro players) because he doesn't want a set or made flush to push all in here.

lapoker17 12-22-2005 06:08 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
im getting it all in on turn. i go busto here everyday.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 06:14 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
im getting it all in on turn. i go busto here everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the first person to say this. Just wondering-do you think villain has a set? If so, does the check with the risk of giving a free card seem like a standard play?

lapoker17 12-22-2005 06:20 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Depending on opponent, I will play sets very slow on boards like this. Is that your question? I may go, check/call, check/call, block river with a set on this board. But assuming most people think like me/us is usually the wrong thing to do. I just think that his range is wide enough that we are ahead here more often than not. BTW, I have no idea what 22/9 means, so if that changes everything, I could be wrong.

xorbie 12-22-2005 06:23 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax or he is a [censored] moron. For you guys thinking he has A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x, why doesn't he check/raise the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that this is very wrong. I know of several high limit players who post on this board who sometimes flat call with a set on a monatone board and blast the turn on a non-pairing card of a different suit. A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x doesn't necessarily raise the flop here either (especially against very aggro players) because he doesn't want a set or made flush to push all in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must have missed villain "blasting" this turn.

xorbie 12-22-2005 06:24 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I probably call the turn. Bet any non-heart river if checked to, call any non heart river bet that isn't gross (i.e. all in) and debate between any bet that is gross. Helps to know who opponent is, even though I don't play stars.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also my line.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 06:25 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, I have no idea what 22/9 means, so if that changes everything, I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird that you wouldn't pick up on this yet. 22 is the percentage of hands he voluntarily puts money in the pot preflop. 9 is the percentage of hands he raises preflop. So a 22/9 is very tight player but not an absolute nit.

xorbie 12-22-2005 06:26 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax

[/ QUOTE ]

AA does not have a set here. I agree with you though that the c/raise with just the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is unlikely as the flop is the time to make that move

[/ QUOTE ]

How does AA not have a set? Am I reading the wrong hand or was the turn an A?

lapoker17 12-22-2005 06:27 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Weird that you wouldn't pick up on this yet

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what it means essentially - I should've said that I don't know how it compares to others in the game - or how it serves to quantify his image. I really have no reason to know any of that since I play real poker. HAHAHAHHA.

ML4L 12-22-2005 06:31 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
So a 22/9 is a loose player but not an absolute maniac.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

(this is full ring, right?)

flawless_victory 12-22-2005 06:34 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im getting it all in on turn. i go busto here everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the first person to say this. Just wondering-do you think villain has a set? If so, does the check with the risk of giving a free card seem like a standard play?

[/ QUOTE ]
ill be the second.
i would push.
final answer.
edit- this assumes we dont know him... put his sn in here and i may change my mind.

Rococo 12-22-2005 06:35 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must have missed villain "blasting" this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quit being a nit. Villain raised the turn. I guess it wasn't full pot, but whatever.

xorbie 12-22-2005 06:37 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
It was basically a minraise. I'm not being a nit, I think there is a 0% chance a solid player is checking a set twice against someone who could easily have the 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and could easily check behind this turn cuz he has nothing at all.

Rococo 12-22-2005 06:37 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have no idea what 22/9 means, so if that changes everything, I could be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't feel bad LA. I don't have a good sense of what it means either, and I do play on line. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

lapoker17 12-22-2005 06:47 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
against someone who could easily have the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa, not sure about that.

xorbie 12-22-2005 06:52 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
against someone who could easily have the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa, not sure about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

uh? seeing as hero does have the 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], i'm pretty sure its not exactly a stretch of the imagination. my point is that hero could easily have a pp with a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or even an A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x hand, so there is really no logic in villain checking twice with a set, and then even less in giving him such good odds to draw on the turn. I think there is almost no chance we don't see at least the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in villains hand here.

iceman5 12-22-2005 07:00 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
When I raise a suited connector and flop a flush, Im not folding. End of story. If he flush over flushes me...so be it.

I push in on the turn.

captZEEbo1 12-22-2005 07:25 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
2 pair (with Ah) is possible here, I've also seen sets play like this too.

shmahappens 12-22-2005 08:22 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
I really don't understand NL... AA on 67K A board isn't a set?
I gotta stick with limit...

durrrr 12-22-2005 08:45 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
When I raise a suited connector and flop a flush, Im not folding. End of story. If he flush over flushes me...so be it.

I push in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is bad logic; unless you qualify it w/ the statement: "when i have 100bbs behind." I'm not saying hero should or shouldnt go broke here (pm me the players sn, and buy me a beer and i can tell you); however there are some boards where he should fold a flopped flush for 150bbs.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 08:54 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is about 0% chance villain has a set here unless its A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Ax

[/ QUOTE ]

AA does not have a set here. I agree with you though that the c/raise with just the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is unlikely as the flop is the time to make that move

[/ QUOTE ]

How does AA not have a set? Am I reading the wrong hand or was the turn an A?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm stupid. You're smart. I was wrong. You were right. You're the best. I'm the wrost. You're very good-looking. I'm not very attractive.

iceman5 12-22-2005 08:54 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
Durr, I meant that Im not folding in THIS hand with THESE stacks.

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 08:56 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
im getting it all in on turn. i go busto here everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the first person to say this. Just wondering-do you think villain has a set? If so, does the check with the risk of giving a free card seem like a standard play?

[/ QUOTE ]
ill be the second.
i would push.
final answer.
edit- this assumes we dont know him... put his sn in here and i may change my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

0504. Does that help?

FoxwoodsFiend 12-22-2005 09:00 PM

Re: FLUSH!!!!!!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
I really don't understand NL... AA on 67K A board isn't a set?
I gotta stick with limit...

[/ QUOTE ]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHASHUTTHEFUCKUP


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