Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Artest for year.

Jackson for 30 games.

O'Neil for 25 games.

Wallace for 6 games.

Pretty absurd.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Good bye Pacers, I think Jackson's is fine but I don't remember O'neal actually going into the crowd. I thought he went after a fan who came onto the court. Big difference and if I am wrong then his punishment is too harsh.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Yea, it's absurd that Jermaine O'Neal isn't gone for the season after he took three steps and decked a defenseless fan that posed no threat to him. He was just looking for someone to hit. It reminded me of the Rodney King riots.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Yeah, that innocent fan only threw a punch at Artest and tried to tackle him. No biggie, right?

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Right.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Tyler,

The "fan" O'Neal decked came onto the court. First mistake. He also was involved in some kind of conflict with other Pacers and even coaches. Second mistake.

Third mistake? He didn't watch his own ass. He got what he had coming. IF YOU ARE A SPECTATOR, YOU DO NOT GO ONTO THE COURT. IF YOU DO, YOU DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. This "fan" learned that the hard way. About time, too, if you ask me.

-Edge

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Boys will be boys. Give them a token slap on the wrist for causing all sorts of commotion, then move on. Contrary, apparently, to most people's view on these types of things, I actually enjoy seeeing them. Fans should get in fist fights with the away teams players more often.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clark is like a 4 year old child, he doesn't get it. Just stop trying to explain this situation to him.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Artests is too short, but more than I expected. Wallace's is too long. Artest should have to prove he has completed anger management, a psych eval, and followed all treatment recommendations in the psych eval before reinstatement. Artest's suspension is probably long enough to deter future riots. The situation could have turned out a lot worse.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

I know. I'm sure you'd just sit there and let someone wail away while you did nothing to protect yourself, or your friends. That's awesome. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Artests is too long. I love the message to fans: Do whatever you can to incite the players on the court and you might get them kicked out for the season and help your team. Outstanding.

It happened before and the suspension was 10 games for Maxwell. 30 games for Artest would have been more than punitive enough.

Jackson, Wallace and O'Neil's suspensions are roughly double what they should be. Stern trying to make a statement.

The Pistons should absolutely have to play their next home game against the Pacers without any fans in attendance, ala international soccer. To have no repercussions to the team or its fans is only going to encourage this behavior.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

The only thing that's absurd is that anybody cares about the NBA.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that's absurd is that anybody cares about the NBA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the Bulls suck I normally wouldn't, but I have this damn fantasy basketball league to worry about, so I actually need to pay attention. FWIW, I have none of the players involved on my team.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Pistons should absolutely have to play their next home game against the Pacers without any fans in attendance, ala international soccer. To have no repercussions to the team or its fans is only going to encourage this behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. People are going to respond with, "Oh, but those fans will get prosecuted," blah blah blah. Sure, but the most punishment any of those fans will get is a day or two in jail. I think there are roughly 10 million people in this country who would gladly spend a day or two in jail if it meant their team had a much better shot at the championship.

The fallout from this is that fans will be much more emboldened, especially in Detroit and other cities with classless fans. I really fear that it will take a player losing an eye or getting a serious head injury from a thrown object before anybody feels it necessary to deal with this idiocy.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

How long do you think they should go to jail for?

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

The fans that went onto the court and threw stuff were clearly wrong, but two wrongs do not make a right. From a policy perspective, the league cannot just let the laws of the jungle prevail. By allowing a player to retaliate against a fan just for the sake of his honor or his teammates' honor without severe consequences, the league would be encouraging a similar incident to occur in the future. Any rule making body such as a sporting league or government cannot turn a blind eye to vigilantism because doing so just perpetuates the cycle of violence, which is exactly what they are trying to prevent.

If you think that the player's supsensions are not proportional to their offenses, think about the proportionality of tackling someone and punching them in the face for throwing a cup of water. Or what about coldcocking someone in the face for simply being where they should not be?

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

I wouldn't mind seeing the Pistons have repercussions for the fans or team. But Artest was way out of line, as I have posted about in this and the other thread. And part of the reason why (not the main reason) is that he knew he was in Detroit. He did a deliberately provocative thing by laying on the scorer's table. (I know people say he disengaged, but it was clearly a move to make the whole thing a spectacle/to show up everybody) And then he charged the stands in Detroit. That is a recipe for a riot. No credit to Detroit, but the reality is that his behavior was much more dangerous in Detroit than in Davenport Iowa or boise. Less dangerous than in some third world soccer match. But totally crazy and out of line IMO.

It would not surprise me if there is a huge riot or something at a game and it hurts sports' overall popularity at some point. Hope it doesn't happen. A good place to start is major suspensions. Like for the Angels pitcher who tossed the chair - easy 5 year or life ban. Doesn't bother me of teams forfeit games for ridiculous fan behavior. But it might be better to announce after the game. Forfeit an ongoing game and there might be a riot. Then again, if fans can dictate the outcome - as you point out in your post - there is a whole host of other problems. Not a good situation. Oh, well, bread and circuses for the masses in a republic in decline, right? [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

everyones suspensions are too long, except Wallace. His should have been 10 games. Bye Bye Pacers, it was a fun season for a couple weeks. This team won't even make the playoffs now.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing that's absurd is that anybody cares about the NBA.

[/ QUOTE ]

By far the best post in this thread!

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

"No credit to Detroit, but the reality is that his behavior was much more dangerous in Detroit than in Davenport Iowa or boise."

I don't agree with this statement, but even if I did, there are no locations where basketball is played in stadia where this type of event could not have happened.

As if it really matters, the Palace of Auburn Hills is located in a very wealthy suburb that is about 1/2 hour away from Detroit.

-Michael

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
As if it really matters, the Palace of Auburn Hills is located in a very wealthy suburb that is about 1/2 hour away from Detroit.


[/ QUOTE ] You are right, this doesn't matter.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Well I guess we all learned a valuable lesson. After the inevitable nothing that will come about as punishment for the fans (remember those guys that charged that third base coach), we as fans are once again free to assult anyone we like and even to enter the field of play (although you might get punched, but hey whats a bruise to getting your rivals star player out for the season). Just a reminder if you do happen to run out on the court, make sure you run back into the stands after suckerpunching the player of your choice, becuase he can't follow no matter what.

Friday was sad, today is a truely dark day, I can only hope that riots break out at more games forcing Stern to come off his high horse and realize that those players in his charge are people too. Oh well at least Artest didn't get the death penelty (I'm only half joking).

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Wallace should be 10? Have you ever watched or followed the NBA before? Similar actions in the past got a 1-3 game suspension - his was this long only because of the aftermath.

Now we just wait to see what kind of charges are brought against Jackson, O'Neal and Artest.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

The guys who ran onto the court will surely lose their season tickets, be banned from the arena, and be subject to fines and/or jailtime.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wallace should be 10? Have you ever watched or followed the NBA before?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have YOU ever watched or followed the NBA before? The foul that got his panties all in a twist wasn't even that hard, and aren't even hard enough to be CALLED when they're done to Shaq multiple times nightly. If Wallace doesn't wig out over a little foul, heck, if he just quits after the shove, MAYBE he and Artest sit for a game and are back with their teams. Part of me thinks it was just Big Ben's pride wouldn't let a foul go at the end of such a whipping at home.

-Edge

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
No credit to Detroit, but the reality is that his behavior was much more dangerous in Detroit than in Davenport Iowa or boise.

[/ QUOTE ]

you know that this didnt happen in detroit, right?

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Right you just keep thinking that, I doubt anything will happen to them, who knows if they were even season ticket holders and not people from the nosebleeds, or better yet people who were using those tickets for one game from the acutal owner of the seats.
Bottom line is they pay nothing (or as close to nothing as you can get without actually being nothing) and they get rewarded, assuming they are Pistons fans, incredibly.

Like I said, learn from this, if you want to cripple a team in any sport, especially the NBA, just charge the court, suckerpunch a good player, and run like hell. Once he follows, which he will if not his teammates, BAM ready bake one year suspension.

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Yes. Because a player running after someone who came onto the court and suckerpunched him is equivalent to a guy charging into the stands because a cup of beer got thrown at him. Nice analogy.

RE: Wallace - find me one guy in history who has been suspended 6 games for pushing someone. I don't mind his suspension but it was much more the result of the aftermath than his actual actions.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

You keep trying to act like this wasn't a tremendous cheap shot given the situation and the players involved. It was. Get over it. Wallace is one of the toughest players in the league. If you commit a bullsh't foul like that you can expect to get roughly what Artest got, and Wallace should expect a 1-3 game suspension for it. If Artest had sat his ass down in front of the scorer's table or the bench and stopped trying to show off, nothing would have happened.

NT

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Slick,
If I run up to you and throw a cup of water and ice in your face and you punch me (or otherwise incapacitate me), we both get arrested, and after questioning I go to jail and you go free.
Also, while O'Neal was a little out of line with the running hammer punch, the clips are dangerously misleading, what they don't show is that right before that clip starts that fan is seen in a fight with a Pacers offical and a player (Artest I belive). Yeah O'Neal didn't need to take a running punch at him, but he was defending his team and friends (which I believe the law allows for in the case that a mob is baring down on you).
That said, I was all for the suspensions listed at the start of this thread as a comprromise between the crazy "burn him at the stake" posts and the equally crazy "let them all go free" posts (of which I am in favor).
The actual suspensions just reenforce that there is no line for the fans to cross, they are free to do whatever they please, and if history is any indication, their punishments will be fairly light.

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

your hyperbole is simply amazing and stupid.

Watch the highlights of the whole thing again. Wallace started the whole thing, and in fact he did absolutely nothing to defuse the situation.

I am done talking to you too because I have read several insanely stupid posts from you regarding this topic already.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Yes it is, it doesn't matter what the action, a phsyical threat to a player is a phsyical threat. People continue to try to say "it's only a cup". Ok, so at what point is it assult, and worthy of defending onesself, after two beers, three beers, at 10 ft away, at 5 ft away. The fact is the law makes these lines ambiguous because people have different limits and an attack, no matter the action, is an attack (after a resonable level, for example, bumping into someone on the sidewalk isn't sufficient cause to beat him up).
As for Wallace, yeah way to long, give him the usual two or three game (whatever is consistant) suspension for the throat punch and get on with it.

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Pistons should absolutely have to play their next home game against the Pacers without any fans in attendance, ala international soccer. To have no repercussions to the team or its fans is only going to encourage this behavior.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been reading these Piston/Pacer threads for a couple of days, and I think Clarky has come the closest to what I think about the situation.

The Pistons playing in front of an empty house would hurt the Pistons slightly. Its sort of what I'm getting at.

After seeing the replays a few hundred times, I found the actions of the players to be one of the most disgusting displays of self control ever (and I've watched alot of European soccer).

Artest comitted a stupid, worthless foul when the game was completely out of reach. Wallace completely overreacted to the foul, and should have walked away. The rest is history.

My major problem with this incident was the complete lack of security and police throughout the entire altercasion. Where the hell were they? The whole thing lasted 5 minutes. If all the security in the building can't get to the bench area to insure the saftey of the players and the fans, then they aren't running. I'd bet that I could get from one side of the Palace to the other in 5 minutes in a wheelchair!

When the Pacers were leaving the court, they were being pelted with bottles, cups, food, and other various items from the crowd. There was a total of 5 security guards at the railings, and no one was lifting a finger. The camera man was in a better spot than security. The whole display was ridiculous and the people involved should be ashamed of what they were a part of that night.

Having said that, I think Mr Stern shoud fine the Pistons a ton of cash for basicly being stupid. Their inability to anticipate a situation like this breaking out atests to that. This is a big rivalry. Not Yanks/Sox, but big enough to have the possibility of this situation happening. Also, this isn't hockey, where fans are separated fromthe players by glass (although there have been instances where that didn't help). The Pistons, as well as every basketball arena should have more security in the bench areas because they are so accessable by the public. This goes for both the college and pro basketball teams.

Next time, lets see a team anticipate this type of fight and address it properly, before the fight happens. Fine the Pistons. They are just as responsible for this disaster as Ron Artest is.

Joe

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Wait a tick Salt, he has a small point. That is we sholdn't blame this on Detroit, as it didn't happen in their city, but rather it is the fault of Detroit Pistons Fans, wherever they may have come from. That distiction is important.

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Rich, I agree that the fans should be punished for what they did, but that is the police's job, not the NBA's.

As for your example of you throwing water in my face and me punching you in retaliation, you are incorrect. Both of us could be arrested. It is a common misconcetpion that the person who does not make the first contact has a blank check to retaliate. True, the law allows for self-defense, but only in cases in which you are in danger of serious bodily injury. Although you throwing water in my face is insulting, it does not put in danger of bodily harm.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

I was sort of joking. You are right, its the fans that are to blame, not the city.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

Wait a sec, I agree that Artests foul was cheap and unessecary, but it wasn't flagrant. Wallaces reaction was based on pent up anger from the games outcome. Okay he's out for 3 and Artest is given a medel for his self control (as anyone should after walking away from a throat punch).
Wow this was great, aww no, some one just threw something at Artest when he was on the scorers table, great now we have a riot, what is Stephen Jackson even doing up there, wow why is that guy on the floor attacking people, oh well Artest and O'Neal will take care of it. Christ Almighty what a mess.
"Okay Ronny, sorry but you just can't enter the stands, I'm gonna have to suspend you for 20 games."
"20?!?! You only gave Maxwell 10"
"Yep 20, I know you were defending yourself, but next time find the nearest policemen (assuming Detroit will use them next time) and point the guy out, they'll deal with him."
"Okay next are Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson, sorry but you guys need to sit for 10 becuase of your actions and Stephen you get to sit an extra 10 for entering the stands after Artest"
"That's crap I was just defending my teammate."
"I don't care if it was you mother, do not enter the stands, the reason it's only 20 and not the season is that I understand that you were provoked, but that's still not an entirely forgivable excuse."
"Lastly we have Big Ben Wallace, let's see you throat punched Artest, that's three games and think about why we shouldn't throat punch people."
"Oops I almost forgot the Detroit Pistons Franchise. I know you love the look of the Palace packed with fans, but I'm gonna give you a chance to enjoy it when it's devoid of fans. THat's right, since you can't control your fans, or even put enough security to defuse a situation, you get to play your next game against these Pacers without any fans. Thank international soccer for that one."
"Pacer Fans, I know you don't want any suspensions but you have to realize that occasionally players must rise above the actions of fans. Your players will pay their penelties for their actions, and be thankful they were acting in self-defense or they would be done for a year."
"Pistons fans, you need to learn that your actions will have consiquences, no longer will you be granted impunity as part of a large crowd. Your team will suffer from your actions, and I can only hope that the law does everything in it's power to bring you to justice (ed. note- It won't)."

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

I suppose this is where we differ in our opinion of the incident. I see the water as a precursor to further violence, whereas I think you see it as an isolated incident. Neither of us will ever know who is correct, but I will say that I highly doubt that if Artest does nothing (or mearly calls security) that the shower will stop there. What do you think the fans would think after seeing Artest just take to water, do you really think they would stop?

Cody

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

In an ideal world, fans would be thrown out and banned for throwing things. Unfortunately that is not the case. But allowing players to retaliate just makes the situation worse.

Re: Artest gone for year, other suspensions absurdly long
 

"Pretty absurd."

I agree. Far too light.