Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

.5/1 Full Ring (Pokerroom)

This is Villian's 1st hand at the table. I have no PA stats on him so I don't know shiznit.

Hero has A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in EP.

PRE -
1 fold, Hero raises, folds to Villian in BB who calls

FLOP - 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls

TURN - Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps

RIVER - J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB bets, Hero calls.

I don't know WTF on the turn. What kind of hands would you expect to see here at SD? Was the turn 3-bet ok? Will someone play a draw on the turn like this? The river card is kinda nasty. Any one play this one differently?

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

Don't really dig the 3-bet. An unknown can usually beat a pair when he does this vs. an EP raiser.
I just played a hand where I 3-bet a turn C/R with AQ on a Q349 board on the turn, but that was against a TAG who thought I was stealing from the button, ya know?
I don't see how the river really changes anything in your hand.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

I think readless I get to showdown cheaply after being checkraised on the turn. The problem with being 3-bet is after you get capped on the turn, I want to fold the river, but against an unknown that isn't fun.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

I play it the same.
I want to fold the river but I'm not good enough.

I think next time, chop the action at the turn c/r.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the river really changes anything in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't, I'm just being results oriented.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how the river really changes anything in your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't, I'm just being results oriented.

[/ QUOTE ]

It most definitely does change things.

When c/r on the the turn I put him on 4 types of hands.

1. TPGK
2. Pair +flush
3. Two pair
4. Straight/flush combo

I 3bet because I'm ahead of 3/4. When I'm capped, I think 3 is more likely but have 5 outs even against that.

On the river, I only beat AQ and KQ. Even QJ just jumped in front.

The river is a fold, but like I said, I doubt I'm good enought to make it.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

I think I play this the same way.

You have to 3-bet the turn here, maybe villain flopped a set but I'm not ready to give him credit just yet. The river card kinda sucks but surely villain isn't getting that excited over an FD on the turn. Minus a read I think I just call the river, though part of me wants to raise.

Maybe villain showed JT or a PP that connected with the flop??

NH.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

Given that you don't have a read I don't think you can fold the turn cap, you've made the pot big and you are getting 10-1 to see the river and 5.5-1 on a call down.

A more conservative line would be to just call the raise since we can't fold to a cap. I just think we miss too much value by doing this. I think villain can have many hands that you beat here and he will pay you off with most Qs. I have ran into some aggro opponents lately so I may be a little off.

Edit: Even with a read we have to call the turn since we have odds to improve to beat 2 pairs.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

[ QUOTE ]
The river is a fold, but like I said, I doubt I'm good enought to make it.

[/ QUOTE ]
The river is a fold with a read on a player that you can narrow down to the range you posted. Without that read, I think folding is not as good. That's why I don't 3-bet the turn. I rarely have this problem anymore because I rarely play against unknowns, but I'm not 3-betting an unknown.

Re: Overpair vs mucho turn AG.
 

against unsophsticated players i will just call down after being checkraised. i don't think they would call you a pansy if you did. i don't think 3betting is bad though, or even -EV. its just when you get 4bet you want to cry.