Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

What amount of money would you recommend I set aside as a bankroll for this purpose?

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

this might work better in the section for what you're talking about -

In THEORY, with big buyins, it might be possible at 1/2 NL - I doubt it though -

RB

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

I hope its no limit? As limit would next to useless in any western country. If it's NL you would need 2K plus a few months of living expenses........

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Nah its thoroughly doable. He could make 100 plus a day. The players stink at this limit. I mean people work for less than that at various jobs.......

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

lol definitely NL

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

true - my biggest wins have been at 1/2 NL - but then so have my swings -

but if I have 300 in the middle there, it probably started as $100 and was earned up, so that's allright -

RB

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Wow 2 votes for 1k...I'm guessing I have 2 enemies on here that would like to see me on the street and off the internet ASAP? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Poll kinda off since more is better obviously. People are assuming you can choose how much to start with, and that having an extra 1k or more has no drawbacks.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

I voted for over 4K. I honestly don't think you can make a real living at 1/2, and I think you'll need the rest for L-I-V-I-N.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Problem with playing B&M $1-2 NLHE for a living is the speed of the game is so slow you cant get the hands you need. that being said I still think IF you had to you could make a living at this game BUT you would have to play solid hours 5-6 days a week. I think you could net $150 a day or around $750-$1000 a week. Your ability to consistently earn money in slow B&M games is that your opponents need to play poorly ...so game selection is everything. Do you really want to sit in the Commercre or Bike or any Vegas pokerroom for 6-8 hours a day 5/6 days a week...B&M pokerrooms are disgusting after awhile...you can do it online much easier.

For a starting bankroll you need at least $3K plus 3 months expenses ie another $5K++ if you dont know what the heck you are doing or you run bad.

Ssems to me B&M games thu the opponents in general may be more live than online players ..the game may play bigger with the bigger pre-flop raises..this menas higher variance.. I would definetly say 20 buy-ins is a minimum. Really matters how you do when you first start..if you run crappy and lose 10 buy-ins your first week or 2 ..will your wheels fall off? Having a bigger br will make it easier to stay level if you get off to a bad start. Good Luck..If you find the $1-2 games easy ..try moving up to the $2-5's methodically.
I would say you need a $4-5K starting bankroll another $5K for backup expenses. If you know you can beat this game for a living you could start with as liitle as $2K/$3K.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Well I starting playing online for a living in November '04, after losing my job unexepctedly. The job didn't pay squat, and although I was already a decent poker player, I hadn't saved up a bankroll of any kind, I would usually invest my profits into learning omaha or stud or draw or some other game, and never save them.

So when I lost my job I literally had to overdraw my bank account for $200 if I remember right. Fortunately it was several months and a few thousand saved up before I hit a bad patch....

This post relates to a question I had asked on here earlier...I have just gotten tired of grinding it out online, and although a lot on here thought I should move up, 1 or 2 levels higher nl online requires a lot more br, a good deal more skill, and is a lot less profitable compared to entry level nl where most fish either stay or return after getting eaten alive at more reasonable levels.

Unfortunately I only have about 3k as I spent 2k to get a car to take me to the B&M (I know illustrious life of a poker pro right...hopefully most are doing a lot better than me), but anyways, I can still play online.

What I was thinking as possibly a sensible compromise is maybe just going up to the B&M on weekends when the games are super juicy, and playing online during the week. My experience during the week is that play is still invariably much looser than online, but much tighter than weekend play, and I probably won't be tripling my buy in on a Monday night unless the cards are with me.

On the other hand, internet play isn't great mostdays either, and weekends have been when I've made about half of my money...so we'll have to see how this works.

If I even had like 2k more this would be all a lot simpler, I don't know maybe I should just take the safe route and keep playing online while that's still available...

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Sully wrties: [ QUOTE ]
....solid hours 5-6 days a week. I think you could net $150 a day or around $750-$1000 a week.

[/ QUOTE ] I think this is pobabably correct, but this is not enough to make a living. You must remember you will need to
pay for all your benifits, i.e., health insurance, social security, and taxes. It would be better to get some sort of
job that would give you benifits, and play poker part time. Until you can move up to higher limits. Otherwise you are putting your security in jepordy.

A safe bankroll would be one that gave you say a 1% risk of ruin. Thus never bet more than 1% of your bankroll. What is your average Max bet at 1/2 No Limit? If its $50, I'd want a bankroll of $5K. You may be willing to acept a higher risk
of ruin, say 2% and uses as a bankroll of aprox $2.5K
with a maximum bet of $50. BTW theses are rough estimates.
Poker is tricky and it i hard to be precise.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sully wrties: [ QUOTE ]
....solid hours 5-6 days a week. I think you could net $150 a day or around $750-$1000 a week.

[/ QUOTE ] I think this is pobabably correct, but this is not enough to make a living. You must remember you will need to
pay for all your benifits, i.e., health insurance, social security, and taxes. It would be better to get some sort of
job that would give you benifits, and play poker part time. Until you can move up to higher limits. Otherwise you are putting your security in jepordy.

A safe bankroll would be one that gave you say a 1% risk of ruin. Thus never bet more than 1% of your bankroll. What is your average Max bet at 1/2 No Limit? If its $50, I'd want a bankroll of $5K. You may be willing to acept a higher risk
of ruin, say 2% and uses as a bankroll of aprox $2.5K
with a maximum bet of $50. BTW theses are rough estimates.
Poker is tricky and it i hard to be precise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what you just said.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

I say you set aside enough money to live on for however long you can handle living this pipe dream.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

you can make well over $50k/yr at these games IF you are good enough. anyone who thinks otherwise doesnt know what theyre talking about.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Word. Don't play for a living unless you've got at least six months' worth of living expenses, and probably more if you don't want your diet to consist of boiled beans and rice, and Ramen.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

I appreciate your more positive outlook, but what makes you so sure on this? Do you or someone you personally know make this much at this game?

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think this is pobabably correct, but this is not enough to make a living. You must remember you will need to
pay for all your benifits, i.e., health insurance, social security, and taxes. It would be better to get some sort of
job that would give you benifits, and play poker part time. Until you can move up to higher limits. Otherwise you are putting your security in jepordy

[/ QUOTE ]

since when is $35K-$50K not a living wage..you must be kidding me..read the guy's posts...he just bought a car for $2K. If he is single depending on the cost of living of where he plays-$750-$1000 a week is a decent wage not just for him but 40% of Americans.

What area of the country are we talking about OP?

This is all hypothetical thu. It may be possible to make a $G a week or more in these games..whether or not the poster has the discipline, work ethic and brain power ..he will have to test the waters himself bit by bit..90% of these could I play pro posts are made by players that really dont have what it takes to play for a living-if they were more confident in their actual playing ability they would have a better feel for their earning power. Hopefully with some hard work the OP if he wants can make it.

propping is an option also.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Word. Don't play for a living unless you've got at least six months' worth of living expenses, and probably more if you don't want your diet to consist of boiled beans and rice, and Ramen.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can always use poker comps for meals at the casino.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Word. Don't play for a living unless you've got at least six months' worth of living expenses, and probably more if you don't want your diet to consist of boiled beans and rice, and Ramen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mmmm....beef flavored ramen...

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]

since when is $35K-$50K not a living wage..you must be kidding me..read the guy's posts...he just bought a car for $2K. If he is single depending on the cost of living of where he plays-$750-$1000 a week is a decent wage not just for him but 40% of Americans.

What area of the country are we talking about OP?



[/ QUOTE ]

$35-50K is barely getting by in cities like Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco. Making that amount, a reasonable rent is $400-700 a month. If you live in Austin Texas, you are not gonna have trouble finding a one or two bedroom apartment on the low end of that amount. In the bigger coast cities though, you can only find those type rents in rougher areas. In any half decent area, the cheapest, smallest studio you will find runs $750 and up. So your income is extremely streched due to high rents. At $35-50K a year in Los Angeles you are looking at 1/4 to 1/2 of your take home income for rent.

Sometimes those of us in these type areas forget that much of the country has a lower cost of living than we do.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

agreed big diffrence trying to make it playing this game in LA,SF then some midwestern locale..dont really know whats out there now.. I assume at most decent sized rooms this game is being spread regularly.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

mmmmmmmmm... Ramen

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]


$35-50K is barely getting by in cities like Los Angeles, New York, and San Francisco. Making that amount, a reasonable rent is $400-700 a month. If you live in Austin Texas, you are not gonna have trouble finding a one or two bedroom apartment on the low end of that amount. In the bigger coast cities though, you can only find those type rents in rougher areas. In any half decent area, the cheapest, smallest studio you will find runs $750 and up. So your income is extremely streched due to high rents. At $35-50K a year in Los Angeles you are looking at 1/4 to 1/2 of your take home income for rent.

[/ QUOTE ]

I live in the ATX, but there is not a B&M for a minimum of 5 hours. Still amazes me Texas of all states does not have cardrooms. $600 a month here could get you the smallest unit in a luxury apt complex. The term luxury is misused, but its just a good statement to say (better than 80% of the complexes out there). If you have 650 sq ft, is having another 200 sq ft that important for the extra amount of $$$? Some it is, some it is not. Hell for $600 a month, you could find a sweet duplex with a yard and not have to live in some huge apt complex.

Rent is just a endless blackhole. You pay off a month, you get 30 days. Next month, pay off another 30 days. Look at a 5 year span, how much you will throw down on rent each year. It will start to add up.

Your home is important, because that is where you spend a lot of time. If you are single, don't have much stuff, I say live on the lower end of your income. You will save more $$$ for anything else you want to do (traveling for one). I hope one day to just own some piece of property so my payments are going towards ownership and not towards the endless feeding of rent.

It is a luxury to live on the expensive west/east coast cities. Your cashflow and lifestyle are always the deciding factors.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

You need a much bigger bankroll than any of the choices if you want to make a living at it...The swings of poker and NLHE in particular make that the hardest game to make a living at...It would be easier to make a living playing 10/20 or even 6/12 Limit in my opinion

I would ask where you are going to play also as that would have a big effect on the bankroll needed

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

I would suggest you not play 1/2 for a living.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
The swings of poker and NLHE in particular make that the hardest game to make a living at...It would be easier to make a living playing 10/20 or even 6/12 Limit in my opinion

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really true? I am no pro but it seems like the swings at limit can be just as bad if not worse than NL, at least based on my online play.

As for the OP, couldn't you accomplish the same thing by 4-tabling the 50NL games online? You'd play a lot more hands, which would reduce your variance, you'd pay less rake, and could work from home.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Word. Don't play for a living unless you've got at least six months' worth of living expenses, and probably more if you don't want your diet to consist of boiled beans and rice, and Ramen.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mmmm....beef flavored ramen...

[/ QUOTE ]

Beware the Ramen.

I know a guy that ate only Ramen for many months and actually came very close to having scurvy. His roommate was the ONLY reported case of scurvy in the United States that year. I'm not kidding though I did mention it mainly as a ridiculous novelty story.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Swings in NL are less than in limit. And its not a discussion, its a fact.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Swings in NL are less than in limit. And its not a discussion, its a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to elaborate. Or shall we drop the discussion because you say it's fact?

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

not a fact obviously, but pretty generally accepted that swings in most smaller NL games are far less than in limit.

I've said this before and I'll say it again to the OP, quit complaining, learn to play better, and move up. all the smaller party NL games are ridiculously soft.

--turnipmonster

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Too bad they don't have .50/1.00 live.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Too bad they don't have .50/1.00 live.

[/ QUOTE ]

The toke alone would kill you at this limit. It's bad enough at $2/$4.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Swings in NL are less than in limit. And its not a discussion, its a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to elaborate. Or shall we drop the discussion because you say it's fact?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should just let the discussion drop, becuase its a fact. But I had forum veterans to help me, so Ill pass along what I was taught. In no limit, because you are able to change bet sizes you are able to get much more money in, when you hvae a bigger edge, and less money, when you think you dont (at least for a skilled player). Hence in NL you have smaller swings. There are other mathematical reasons, btu thats the gist of it.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Swings in NL are less than in limit. And its not a discussion, its a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to elaborate. Or shall we drop the discussion because you say it's fact?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should just let the discussion drop, becuase its a fact. But I had forum veterans to help me, so Ill pass along what I was taught. In no limit, because you are able to change bet sizes you are able to get much more money in, when you hvae a bigger edge, and less money, when you think you dont (at least for a skilled player). Hence in NL you have smaller swings. There are other mathematical reasons, btu thats the gist of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. However, the converse is also true. Therefore, if you are playing correctly, you will get the correct price to draw at a wide variety of hands, and many times you will miss these draws. In a typical 1/2 game, there can be numerous callers to a $15 preflop raise. Suddenly, you will find yourself priced in on a flop as a 5/1 dog (for example). Over the long term, it is correct to draw at that hand, but you will still miss 4 out of 5 times. What happens on the turn when your oppenent pushes for the rest of yours and his stack and again, the price is too good to fold?

These hands occur routinely in the 1/2 game, and can cost you your whole stack. The same hands in limit do not cost you your whole stack.

The only way to avoid these types of hands are to fold all but the most premium of hands preflop, and if that is your strategy, there is no way you will see enough hands at B&M poker to win at this level. Becuase the real way to win at this level is to understand implied odds and drawing odds but those same odds dictate that you will take some swings.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

PS: I'm not an expert theorist nor a mathematician, but I believe most who claim the swings in limit are higher than no limit are basing this on the pretext that you will be playing a tight and conservative game. However, a tight and conservative game will not maximize your profits over the long term and definitely will be more profitable online than at your typical B&M.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow 2 votes for 1k...I'm guessing I have 2 enemies on here that would like to see me on the street and off the internet ASAP? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, they could have meant limit, since it wasn't mentioned in the poll. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Swings in NL are less than in limit. And its not a discussion, its a fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

Feel free to elaborate. Or shall we drop the discussion because you say it's fact?

[/ QUOTE ]

I should just let the discussion drop, becuase its a fact. But I had forum veterans to help me, so Ill pass along what I was taught. In no limit, because you are able to change bet sizes you are able to get much more money in, when you hvae a bigger edge, and less money, when you think you dont (at least for a skilled player). Hence in NL you have smaller swings. There are other mathematical reasons, btu thats the gist of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true. However, the converse is also true. Therefore, if you are playing correctly, you will get the correct price to draw at a wide variety of hands, and many times you will miss these draws. In a typical 1/2 game, there can be numerous callers to a $15 preflop raise. Suddenly, you will find yourself priced in on a flop as a 5/1 dog (for example). Over the long term, it is correct to draw at that hand, but you will still miss 4 out of 5 times. What happens on the turn when your oppenent pushes for the rest of yours and his stack and again, the price is too good to fold?

These hands occur routinely in the 1/2 game, and can cost you your whole stack. The same hands in limit do not cost you your whole stack.

The only way to avoid these types of hands are to fold all but the most premium of hands preflop, and if that is your strategy, there is no way you will see enough hands at B&M poker to win at this level. Becuase the real way to win at this level is to understand implied odds and drawing odds but those same odds dictate that you will take some swings.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I said only applies to long term winning players, obv losing players are going to lose faster at NL. You are assuming that you are getting odds, to put your whole stack in, in your example, you dont give numbers so I dont know whether the odds are there, but rarely do you get a 2:1 draw, that you can put your stack in and be right, ie you ARENT getting the right odds.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

[ QUOTE ]
PS: I'm not an expert theorist nor a mathematician, but I believe most who claim the swings in limit are higher than no limit are basing this on the pretext that you will be playing a tight and conservative game. However, a tight and conservative game will not maximize your profits over the long term and definitely will be more profitable online than at your typical B&M.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is flat out wrong. Tight and conservative is the best way to make the most possible at 99.999% of games. Gone are the days of "doyle's style", or whatever you cats call it.

Re: Going to try playing live 1/2 for a living....
 

Does anyone else think that the OP is asking the wrong question? Perhaps he should be asking, "Is playing 1/2 NL a viable option for a living?" Hopefully, this isn't the OP's goal at the end of the road; sure, only you can determine what you want to do with your life, and don't let anyone tell you NOT to do what you love to do if you can make a living at it. But you've got to ask yourself if you're ok with putting a ceiling on your income. There isn't another bearable occupation out there where you could make, say $25-50,000? I don't see how you could make anything more than that playing 1-2 NL for a living.

Perhaps I'm just biased by the belief that I could make more money than that doing something other than playing 1-2 NL. Truthfully, I think this month's magazine addresses this subject well, between Dr. Al and Ed Miller. Who knows what the tables will be like in 5 years? Right now I'm a college student and can get by making <$10,000 a year. But what about having kids? Dental insurance? Health insurance? Mortgage payments? I don't see any way you could put the weight of a house on a 1/2 NL table. I'm probably rambling right now. I apologize if I am. But sometimes I wonder if "going pro" is an option that too many people think is realistic.

-ryan