I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

Here is the hand…it is from a UB $5 10 man tourney.

Blinds are $75 / $150 (Don’t know how much time till next level.)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Chip Counts:

UTG = $3210.
BUTTON = $1635.
HERO (sb) = $845.
CHIP LEADER (BB) = $9310.

Action:

HERO (sb) posts $75.
CHIP LEADER (BB) posts $150.

UTG: calls
BUTTON: calls
HERO (sb): [Ac] [Td] – GOES ALL IN
CHIP LEADER (BB): folds
UTG: folds
BUTTON: calls the all in

OK, here is the situation and MY thinking:

The button is NOT playing correctly at this time, and is tangling with the big stacks just about every hand. He is also calling off chips on the turn and the river. The sb looks down and see ATo. Yes, he is short stacked, and ATo is not a bad hand 4 way (though I would much prefer suited here). However, there are 2 callers and 2 large stacks in the hand at this point. He raises, and the 2 stacks fold (correctly unless they have something) as they might get into the money if sb busts.

Now, the reasoning for NOT PUSHING here, to me, is this: Both big stacks are in the hand. The button is not a good player, and is capable of bad calls / bad plays. I think that even though pushing is not bad here, letting BOTH big stacks into the hand with the button can be considered, as it is very possible he will self-destruct and let you in the money. Right now, your chance for 1st or 2nd is slim…so you are fighting to make it into the money, and then maybe a higher place later.

So, given the above, would not a fold be a possible way to go, maybe even a better plan, then winging it on a good but dangerous hand? You are losing only $75, and have free hands coming…And recall the ONLY reason I would even consider NOT PUSHING is how bad the button is playing, as I believe there is +EV in letting HIM in with BOTH big stacks now, and being around while he plays a few more hands as he is very capable of shooting himself in the foot and bubbling. Without that possibility, anyone should be pushing all day long here…but what do y’all think?

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

With the blinds this high and the fact it's 4 handed, and the fact that ATo is a probable favorite against BB's calling range with 2 behind and the limpers range of hands, I see no reason not to push here.

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

PPPUUUSSSHHH

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

I might just call with hands like QJs and push a favorable flop, but ATo has good showdown value. Also, by not pushing, you miss out on a chance of taking down the pot preflop and give weaker hands a free chance to outflop you. This is the time to be aggressive, no wait for button with twice your stack to make a big mistake.

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

easy push

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

I push here. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

The thing is that the button is still going to avoid busting with how short stacked you are. I mean if he isn't, then he truly is awful.

I think the entire thing is if you fold here you are going to be forced to steal one of the next few hands.

I dunno, I push here and risk a coinflip if I must. I just don't think folding AT at 6xbb 4 handed is more +EV than pushing.

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

Why not just call here? You are on the bubble and you don't want to go bust. You have 3 players in the hand already so your fold equity is severely reduced. You get 7-1 on a call.

I think on the bubble, it should be call and if an Ace or a 10 comes, go ahead and push it in.

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

[ QUOTE ]
easy push

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are all your posts directly at me today? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t think pushing is the ONLY option here...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
easy push

[/ QUOTE ]

Why are all your posts directly at me today? [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont understand