BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

$3r/a Sat to 500k, just started level 9, barely 2 hours into the game. I'm, below average by a few thousand. Just recently moved to the table so no real reads, big stacks were limping a lot of hands, nothing unusual. Here goes:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t22555)
SB (t19619)
Hero (t14050)
UTG (t10313)
UTG+1 (t25795)
MP1 (t67024)
MP2 (t29066)
MP3 (t25495)
CO (t11750)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t600, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t600, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (t2500) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets t2400</font>

Hero???

Ok, I've flopped the 2nd nuts AND the sb has led out, making a pot sized bet. He's got 3 players to act behind him and 2 have him covered and've been active. He's obviously looking to price out the flush draws, and I'm sure with 4 of us in, 1 of the 'em could very well be on it.

Now unless he's leading out on the flush draw himself, I have to put him on 2 pair or the set. NONE of which really matters much, 'cause I'm playing these nuts [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

There's T5k in the middle after the sb leads out, the ONLY question is how much to bet.

A "normal" raise would leave a little better than 2-1 odds (calling 5k on a 12k pot) on the call, and if either of the big stacks come along, the sb'll be more than priced in...not to mention it'd leave about 1/2 my stack behind.

So, make a raise to ~7500 or is this a push?

Thanks in advance!

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

I think I'd rather have the 2nd nuts than 34 here. Besides that I'm too sleepy to comment, I think popping it to 7500 is great, a push works too though, if they're gonna call 7500 with a non nut-flush draw or 2 pair here they'll probably call a push too.

Hell it's a $3 tourney, push.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

Third nuts. I probably just call and hope someone reraises or a blank, non-56789, non-club turn comes, which I push.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

Its a push.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

i was going to say raise to 7k, but that is about half your stack. push.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

Any raise commits half your chips so if you raise then you have to push.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

This thread is an example of how playing what people on 2+2 think of as TAG can sometimes be counterproductive.

You have a monster that is vulnerable but not horribly so. A hand like A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is never folding to a push in a 3r anyway, so you're not worried about *all* flush draws (they are coming along regardless), just some of them. A 3 will kill your action but isn't bad otherwise, and no 2 pair is folding now either so a card that pairs the board is a non-issue. Only an 8 or a 4 really hurts you.

Your goal is now to get chips into the pot. I don't mind one or both people behind overcalling - if they have draws, they only have one card to see, anyway, because I'll shut them out on the next street, and in a 3r it's just as likely that they will overcall with AJo if you let them. But more importantly, pushing now might lose the SB, who's likely to be betting a lone 7. I don't see why you guys have this obsession with making sure you take down a 5K pot when (given their ranges and the likelihood of being best on the turn) you have an &gt; 80% chance of getting 10K or the full 20K one street from now, instead.

As to my actual play, depending on the reads I have, it would be between calling or possibly minraising.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

Push. If you wanna get in, you need to win some big pots.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

I like pushing here. I'm not pushing to protect my hand. I'm pushing for value because these guys cannot fold a huge range of hands that you have crushed with 2 cards to come. I don't like letting them see the turn because when it's a blank for their over cards + gutshot draw they often find a fold.

Re: BAD Board, BAD Position, GREAT Hand...HELP!!!
 

Thanks y'all, appreciate the replies, expecially adanthars'...once again, given me plenty to think about!!!

And sorry about the "2nd nuts," it was late/early for me as well.

[ QUOTE ]
As to my actual play, depending on the reads I have, it would be between calling or possibly minraising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Assuming no reads, if you flat-call or even mini-raise, what's the plan for the Turn if a scare card hits, like a 3rd club, a board pairing card or the open-ender 4/8? Thanks again!

Is this an auto-shutdown, can't imagine it is, considering the stack I'd have left...