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04-17-2002 07:11 AM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

Well it looks like I'm gonna be the only dissenting opinion here. Leaving because the live one isn't forced to leave is bad policy. I once did something similar this and there were mixed reactions at the table, a couple people were saying things to the effect of "I'm glad to see you didn't take that shit from tha guy", while others were saying "that guy was awful why the fu*k did you drive him away"!?!. Anyway it got me thinking, and I think I did the wrong thing by driving the guy off. This guy was worse then the average bad player here in California, in other words he was REALLY awful. Anyway his abuse towards me, the floorman, and the dealer are not the responsibility of the players to the point where we give the casino an ultimatum. This is just silly, I have two good friends who are full time dealers and the reality is that these guys make a fairly good living considering the education and skills required (let me say that I personally don't think I would make a good dealer) but this is just one of the tradeoffs. These dealers that have any sense shouldn't care at all about abuse from players- afterall how does it really effect them??? does it harm them or traumatize them in any way- of course not, and if they let that happen to themselves then it is merely a weakness on their part. Leave the duties of the floor personnel up to them, and if some idiot is being out of line just think to yourself that the most miserable person in the whole affair is probably the guy who is pissed and bitter. The dealer is usually smart enough to just let the stupid remarks and occaisional card/chip flung at them not adversely affect their day. Anyway, I guess the bottom line here is to never let some jerk at a table force YOU yourself to do something that you don't really want to do. Of course if this was an excuse to lock up a "sure win" session then I guess maybe there were other motivations but I'm assuming that wasn't the case here.

Finally I want to mention that I am in no way saying bad behavior should be tolerated, I have mentioned here in the past that tolerance levels for these jerks is too high, but I will NEVER let one of these clowns get me in a bad mood or feeling like I shouldn't be playing in the same game as them. If the world was closer to perfect, all the losing players would enjoy dumping their money off, but unfortunately most of them aren't that way. So just roll with the punches and let the floormen figure out situatons like this.


04-17-2002 11:00 AM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

More likely it opens up a seat for someone who intends to compete with you for the abusive live one's money.

04-17-2002 11:01 AM

Re: One person

Once is circumstance, twice is coincidence, but three times is enemy action.

("Let's all sing it together when it comes around on the guitar.")

04-17-2002 11:50 AM

Just so.

perhaps you've missed the extensive discussion on this topic here. or perhaps you don't buy the idea that this behavior DOES effect you in a -EV way. this kind of behavior is EXACTLY why a lot of new players remain outside the cardroom.

Just so.

04-17-2002 11:58 AM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

I'll take as a compliment that Ray would prefer to have a random new arrival rather than me in the chair :-).

In my post, "Just so" above, I simply quoted Baggins' review of the bidding. I (and others) claim that one bad actor, permitted to get away with such behavior, scares away more money (in the form of new customers) than he produces on his own.

I was having dinner with a very successful Las Vegas poker pro a couple of days ago. He said, "I am in the entertainment business". Exactly. And if you're in a business, you need customers. And if you're in the entertainment business, you need happy customers. By allowing one customer to scare away multiple customers, you are costing yourself customers.

Sure, you can't "see" the customers that the nasty one is scaring away. This is a truism - you can't see them because they're not there because he scared them away.

I would think that to prevent/punish bad behavior would be the most obvious of business decisions for those of you that are "in the entertainment business."

Regards, Lee

04-17-2002 12:01 PM

Well Said! *NM*

04-17-2002 12:19 PM

One Question


If someone were able to take the sentence "one bad actor, permitted to get away with such behavior, scares away more money (in the form of new customers) than he produces on his own." and, using some sort of microchip, implant it into the brain of every card club owner, card club stockholder, card room manager, and floorman in the poker industry, would it be a violation of copyright?



04-17-2002 02:34 PM

Re: Just so.


I tried to email you at your old address and it was returned with one of those "unknown address errors". Would it be possible to email me your correct email address at



04-17-2002 04:52 PM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

I know who MW is. He is annoying. I've confronted him about his behavior when he really goes off and he usually mellows out for at least an hour. FWIW, he's been barred (for the time being) from Bay101.

04-18-2002 01:44 AM

Re: Lee puts his foot down

well kris, i guess i can say i see your point. but i think that what Lee did was part of a bigger thing than one asshole in one game. there are plenty of losers out there who would play poker and dump their cash to you if it weren't for guys who get away with treating other human beings like dirt. if i were a dealer, i wouldn't give 2 shits. the other players at the table are that much more likely to see that i get treated better, and tipped better. but as a player, these jerks are ruining the state of the poker world. so many tourists are intimidated by what they see going on in the cardrooms, stuff like this guy gets away with. sure, in california you are not wanting for soft stacks. but lotsa places lose valuable customers because of jerks like this. besides, its easier to take $$ from clueless people who are enjoying giving you their $$ than from jerks who can't stand it.

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