Martingale for SNGs
 

Has anyone here ever used the Martingale System for managing his SNG bankroll? How was it?

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

I think several posters have done something like that; right before they went broke.

p.s. In poker it's called "tilting up."

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

It's better for roulette. Never fails.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Isn't it weird that there's still poverty in the world despite the Martingale system?

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Whats the Martingale system

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

It's funny, I go to a college that specializes in math and science. Last year a group of guys came up with the brilliant idea of using the Martingale system for roulette, and they went around getting people to join them by investing money and playing. I would hear them explaining to potential investors how it worked and they actually had at least ten people interested. They were so excited and talking about what they were going to do with the money they won. Up until that point I thought about filling them in on what would really happen, but the fact that none of them took the time to do the math made me feel like they deserved to lose. Smart people can be so dumb sometimes.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Google is your friend

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Or "Winning the $5 SNG and wondering what to do next"

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

It's where you double your bet after every loss. So each time you make a bet it would put you 1 unit up overall when you win. For example, you bet $1 on red in roulette. If you lose, then you bet $2 next time. If you lose that you would bet $4. Let's say you win that time, then you've lost $3 and won $4 and are now up $1 overall. Obviously this system doesn't work because every single bet you make has a house edge so no matter how you bet you can't win.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

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No it wouldn't.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

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No it wouldn't.

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Yes it would. If you had an infinite bankroll. And if there were no max bet. It is impossible to lose infinity times in a row.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

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No it wouldn't.

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Yes it would. If you had an infinite bankroll. And if there were no max bet. It is impossible to lose infinity times in a row.

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You type faster than me.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

What's the difference between using the Martingale System and Card Counting in Black Jack -- I'll tell you

If they catch you counting cards, they'll kick you out of the casino. If they catch you using a Martingale, you can expect lots of comps -- they may even send an airplane to pick you up from whereever you live.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Unless you play online. Online casino software can detect people using the Martingale system so the system rigs itself and makes you lose.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Perhaps the OP really means a sort of 'step' type approach to STTs.....not really martingale but more like 'parlay'.....there have been some good posts on that as well.

Yugoslav

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

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No it wouldn't.

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Yes it would. If you had an infinite bankroll. And if there were no max bet. It is impossible to lose infinity times in a row.

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Yes.. it's impossible to lose infinite times in a row, but if you lose infinite times in a row, you lose infinite dollars. While this seems like a moot point, it's very significant and means that you can't ignore the possibility.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

but u can lose 100000 times on a row making the martingale -ev. Even if u can bet $82192819829389389139021391283, u are still making a -EV bet.
No matter how big ure bankroll is, u cant make money on the long run making solely -EV bets.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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the bigger reason it fails is because there is a max bet, if there was no max bet and you had an infinite bankroll it would work in theory.

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No it wouldn't.

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Yes it would. If you had an infinite bankroll. And if there were no max bet. It is impossible to lose infinity times in a row.

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This is incorrect. There was a thread about this in the SMP forum. I'll try to find it, but basically it said that at any given point the sum off all your wagers would be negative even if you were doing it with an infinite bankroll.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

At any given point your expectation is negative, yes (assuming a house edge)

However, due to variance there should be times when you are up. Quit during one of those times and you've made money. :-)

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

just think about this. if it takes 1,000,000 times to win you still are positive, if it takes infinity times you still are positive. Its just a matter of how long it takes till you win. If you have infinity time to play, infinity money to play with, and no max bet you will have to win at some point at which point you are positive and that can be repeated.

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this is a stupid debate because there is no such thing as an infinite bankroll.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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Unless you play online. Online casino software can detect people using the Martingale system so the system rigs itself and makes you lose.

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Untrue

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

I think that he was being sarcastic. At least I really hope that he was being sarcastic.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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If you have infinity time to play, infinity money to play with, and no max bet you will have to win at some point at which point you are positive and that can be repeated.

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Incorrect. There is always the chance that you lose from the beginning.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

no there isnt, because with infinity tries you WILL win at some point. while it doesnt matter because its not physically possible, in theory you will win. You will not win with 1,000,000 tries, but infinity, yes.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

What if you used the martingale system on both red and black? Then every time the wheel stops your winning one bet.
Wouldnt you?


fwiw, it was this type of EV thinking for roulette that started my obsession for poker.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

ive never heard of that before, that could be interesting.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

The problem with your debate is that the points you're now arguing have absolutely no substance.

"You WILL win at some point." Well...why? Can you prove it?
"Not necessarily." Can you prove it?

Someone who knows the foundation of these arguments is going to step in and say "you guys are dumb, it's ____ because of ____." I don't know what the second blank is, so I can only ask you guys to fill it in.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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because with infinity tries you WILL win at some point

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No, it's just a probability.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

i agree that there is a one in a huge number chance that you will lose every time and i know that this system cannot work, but with infinity tries you will win, that or I do not understand the concept of infinity, which is quite possible.

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What if you used the martingale system on both red and black? Then every time the wheel stops your winning one bet.

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Not sure what you mean??

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

i think what he means is like have them be two seperate systems. So first you bet $1 on each and if its red than you bet 2 on black and 1 on red the next time and so forth. I see this just reducing variance a little maybe? but obviously has the same downfall.

Edited to apologize for bumping, and didnt want to bump again, I got side tracked on this because i was a moron and tried something similar on BJ and while i know it fails, find it interesting.


re-edited to reply without bumping:

i did not mean because you can be ahead at some point its a winning game but rather that at some point in each individual thing you will win and hence make $1. As long as you always play till you get that win you will be ahead. This is different then just quitting when you are ahead, and is all pointless anyways because it cant happen so im finally done with this thread.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

Cmon stop bumping this retardo thread, its on 4 pages already!! I take back what I said about the forum being better.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

$1 on red
$1 on black

wheel spins: lands on black =>you win $2

$2 on red
$1 on black

wheel spins: lands on black=> you win $2

$4 on red
$1 on black

wheel spins: lands on red=> you win $8

$1 on red
$2 on black

wheel spins: lands on black => you win $4

you've wagered a total of $13 and won a total of $16

Net: $3
And you spun 3 times (discounting the first one which will be breakeven.) So you're EV should be $1 per spin.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

The sum of a series of -EV wagers will never be positive no matter how you sequence them. It is really silly to think that the order in which you make your bets will make you a winner. If you took every wager you made in a Martingale system and ordered them from largest to smallest and wagered them in that order would you still be winning?

Let's say you had an infinite bankroll. Each time you want to win a $1. You win $1 then repeat. Even if you had an infinite bankroll you will be making wagers lager than all the amount you have won more often then you will be up money.

Saying that you will be up at one point and thus it is a winning system is silly. Even with infinite bankroll and infinite tries you could never be up. The same argument could be said about any -EV game. If I play blackjack for an evening I am often times up at some point. Does this mean if I quit once I get up I have found a way to beat blackjack?

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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And you spun 3 times (discounting the first one which will be breakeven.) So you're EV should be $1 per spin.

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rofl you can't base your EV on the results of three previous trials. You can't base your EV on any results of previous trials. That's absolutely ridiculous.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

And when it lands on O or OO?

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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Cmon stop bumping this retardo thread, its on 4 pages already!! I take back what I said about the forum being better.

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Sorry to bump this retardo thread, but I have the answer to the question.

The problem with this question is that it is a divergent series. This is why people are confused and arguing about it. Given an integer N, you will at one point be up N units and at one point be down N units with probability 1. This is because no matter how well you've done so far, the probability that you will never go on a streak that will win or lose you that much is precisely 0.

Because of this, it is impossible to say anything about what will happen over an infinite amount of time. It is simply a question of the way you choose to group the terms when you sum them.

Re: Martingale for SNGs
 

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this is a stupid debate because there is no such thing as an infinite bankroll.

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Congress would disagree.