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nrinker 10-08-2005 10:25 AM

Aks, multiway, blah blah
Relevant information: villain is vpip 55, 24 pfr, and calls pf raises pretty loosely. Id rather not say what I put the villain on here, since my hand range for him was based on the info i have given you.

Comments please.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($139.35)
Hero ($296.72)
MP1 ($331.06)
MP2 ($280)
MP3 ($434.60)
CO ($69.30)
Button ($175)
SB ($196)
BB ($212.50)
UTG ($63.35)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, MP1 calls $14, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $13, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $10.

Flop: ($60) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, MP1 calls $40, SB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: ($140) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets $100</font>, Hero pushes $242.72 (All-In), MP1 calls $142.72.

River: ($625.44) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $625.44

emil3000 10-08-2005 11:01 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
Unless you think you hade the best hand (I donšt think so), the push is bad. He is too short and committed.

PokerFink 10-08-2005 11:01 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
EDIT: I'm an idiot and I read the turn action wrong. Nevermind what I said before.

Turn is either check/fold or make a blocking bet to see the river.

wdeadwyler 10-08-2005 11:18 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
Turn is where this went wrong. Either you make a blocking bet and call a push, or c/f any bet that isnt giving you around 4-1. You are getting 3.4-1 here so this is slightly -ev. If you had blocked with say 80 then I dont see how you can get away from this hand. I had a hand very similar except I reraised preflop, made a continuation bet on the turn, and when I picked up the nfdraw on the turn I just pushed it, hoping to rep AA, KK.

nrinker 10-08-2005 11:33 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
ya, I would have liked to lead the turn with a push, but I couldn't because of the awkward stack sizes.

If I planned on making a blocking bet, and calling a push, then I feel I am better off check raising all in. I really don't feel the villain is committed and has to call here after he bets 100.

He has 142 behind, I see players make this fold plenty of the time. Obviously villains hand range is much larger than the monster variety.

I don't feel a blocking bet drops the villains hand if it is indeed made. Also, If the villain is drawing, he has a shot to bluff me out on the river when I don't hit.

Check fold I think is the worst line to take here. However, I am check folding if the villain bets the pot on the turn.

Do you think my reasoning is dillusional?

wdeadwyler 10-08-2005 11:35 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
c/f is better than c/c imo, and c/r doesnt accomplish much since villain SHOULD be commited (even if he doesnt realize it). If youre gonna get the money in, bet 90 on the turn and call a raise. If he smooth calls again, pray you hit on the river.

Edit: For discussions sake, if villain smooth calls again, and river bricks, ne1 push the river?

nrinker 10-08-2005 11:40 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
FWIW, if you are even thinking about pushing the river after you brick, Then I think my C/R or a turn push is much better.

This is why I don't like giving the villain a chance to smooth call, you leave yourself open to be bluffed. I don't really consider pushing a UI river an option though.......

Also, If you think the villain is committed, then he is still committed on the river isn't he?

dvo352 10-08-2005 11:49 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
I think the flop bet was too small. You had 2 overs with the nut flush draw and a bd straight draw. You wanted to take it down right there since you were a favorite over QQ, JJ or any other pair with 2 cards left to play. So I think betting 60 on the flop would have been better. The turn bet was where you really made a mistake. You should have just shoved it and pray.

nrinker 10-08-2005 11:51 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
Yep, 60 on the flop makes the turn 180 with me pushing 240 into it. Now its not so awkward.

wdeadwyler 10-08-2005 12:36 PM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
I wasnt really thinking about pushing it all in on the river, just wondering what people do in this spot when the river bricks and there is a huge pot in front of them. I guess in retrospect ur c/r all in is better than bet/call raise because you get stuck if villain just smooth calls again. You have convinced me. If we planned enough we could overbet the flop at 70 then just push the turn to REALLY rep a big hand.

nrinker 10-09-2005 12:46 AM

Re: Aks, multiway, blah blah
ya, I think the bigger flop bet, which would set me up better on the turn to push would have been better.

Thanks to everyone for the discussion.

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