Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Prima 0,5/1
Av/ Vpt.22-24

Hero is on MP2 with Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
MP3 -rock,19/3/0.7 -90hands
BB - sLAP 20/6/0.7 -160 hands

Preflop
Hero raises first in, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Flop (7.5SB) 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, BB calls.

Turn (4.75BB) 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets, MP3 raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

I am not confident in flop, cause rock called my pfraise, but I think on this flop bet and check/fold are almost equal.
I have not got enough pot odds to continue on turn, if any of my opponents have decent hands, but if they have only overcards, the probability of improving to the best hand on river and probability of my bluff success, make my bet more valuable, although I think the bet here is a bit overplay, especialy, if MP3 slowplay something like QQ.
Turn call is bad, implied odds are only 1:9.5-10.5, although I won this hand.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

i wouldn't bet the turn.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

I agree with your analysis - I'm not crazy about the turn bet, and I really don't like calling the raise here.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Check the turn.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

I am also not crazy about the turn bet. This is a check/fold for me.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

19/3 is not a rock.
i call on the turn, since you have somewhere between 3 and 10 outs.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

[ QUOTE ]
19/3 is not a rock.
i call on the turn, since you have somewhere between 3 and 10 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there is maximum 5 outs, with TT and JJ MP3, perhaps, would raise on the flop. I think he has QQ and above - its definitely 4 outs.

Of course MP3 is not a rock, "rock" - is his icon name according to BisonBison autorate rules [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

[ QUOTE ]
19/3 is not a rock.
i call on the turn, since you have somewhere between 3 and 10 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think the overcard outs can be any good?

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

I prefer to check/call this turn and fold the river unimproved.

When you're called by 2 players on the flop here you're likely up against at least one made hand so you don't have enough folding equity to put in a bet on the turn (if it became heads up I would definitely bet again though). However, there's a good chance you will improve to the best hand as a T is almost always an out and a Q/J are usually good enough as well.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really think the overcard outs can be any good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. It would be much different if this player raised preflop.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
19/3 is not a rock.
i call on the turn, since you have somewhere between 3 and 10 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really think the overcard outs can be any good?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah. i'd discount them, but yeah.
mainly because AA-KK 3-bet pf, and QQ probably does too.
i can see JJ and TT cold calling...

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Perhaps it was his pfraise of 3, I wasn't sure he'd 3bet QQ, or even KK preflop (more likely though) - of course, I don't know how many hands that is - If you can give yourself more than four outs here, you're definitely swinging it to call the turn raise - I'm also looking at this low aggression factor and wondering if he would raise w/ just top pair here.

I could be reading too much into this, or reading these stats plain wrong.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Let's go back to the preflop raise. If this is full-10 table, isn't there an argument for limping this hand instead?

We'd like to play multiway, so that if our straight or flush draws hit, we get LOTS of money from the table. Also, our hand has almost no showdown value if it doesn't pair. So do we really want to push people out of this pot and try to isolate one (or two) opponents who may have better showdown hands?

I realize the opponents seem a little weak, which makes it tempting for Hero to try to storm his way to victory. But even if that works, we get a pretty small pot for our trouble. Given what a great drawing hand this is, I'd rather limp in and see if Hero can hit big.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

[ QUOTE ]

yeah. i'd discount them, but yeah.
mainly because AA-KK 3-bet pf, and QQ probably does too.


[/ QUOTE ]

It is Prima, not Party. Max VPT-25%!
I raised first in from M2, perhaps I was eager stealing.
There is no need to reraise with AA or KK in such position, because you will definetely drive out ALL other opponents.
The main plan in this situiation -cc to invite additional players and to raise on turn.
On Party with VPT 30-40 reraising with AA is obligatory, but on Prima I see lots of AA, KK just calling, cause usually it is maximum 3 players, that see flop.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

If I'm reading him right, OP says this table is about 25% players seeing the flop. On a tight table like this, I would much rather raise here than just limp in. I think if you limp you'll play OOP against a raise more often than not.

Against a looser table I'd limp.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

the pf raise is correct.

[ QUOTE ]
There is no need to reraise with AA or KK in such position, because you will definetely drive out ALL other opponents.The main plan in this situiation -cc to invite additional players and to raise on turn.
On Party with VPT 30-40 reraising with AA is obligatory, but on Prima I see lots of AA, KK just calling, cause usually it is maximum 3 players, that see flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is incorrect.

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

I am not trying to stir things up but the answere to OP confuse the hell out of me.

First no one can decide if the OP has 3 or 10 outs. Some claim that to hit an overcard OP will be heading to the cashier to cash out and others disagree. Others are saying that villians would raise, cap, or dance a waltz according to the cards they recieved.

What if villian 1 just turned off WPT an his hero just won a million with a 23suited and that is exactly what he is holding (he is playing that hand come hell or highwater)and villian 2 is playing a 92 because it is so close to a Brunson, the most powerful hand in poker. You are beat on the turn and even if you hit the T it WILL be the Tc and you will spew and then see that villian 1 hit a flush because his 23 was a sooted club. Villian celebrates by making sure that his cable is paid up so he will never miss and episode of WPT.

So my point is why are we still in the hand. Doesn't this belong in the muck at the turn. Do we even want to check and see a free card?

How many good things happen by playing this hand past the flop?

How many bad things happen when this hand is played past the flop?

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Someone has bumped a thread on CBs. Everything I need to know right now. Thanks

Re: Got married to my preflop raise, where should I get a divorce?
 

Usual scenario with 3-d raise with AA after the stealer on Prima 0.5/1 -1/2.
Everyone folds to MP3 who raised with J9s (there is lot of stealing on Prima with such hands).
CO reraised, blind folds, MP3 calls.
Flop K65.
MP3 checks, CO bets, MP3 folds or folds on the turn.
With my AA, which comes 1/220, I get maximum 2BB. Congratulations!