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-   -   A few decisions... (http://archives2.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=408084)

kurosh 12-31-2005 01:56 AM

A few decisions...
 
6-handed 15/30. Dean is CO and I think he is tilting. Not super-monkey aggro tilt, but he is misplaying some hands. I have beat him out of a couple pots recently. I'm running good.

UTG (fish, sometimes gets out of line) limps. I raise A9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] next to act. Dean 3-bets. Button folds. SB (no read) calls, BB (bad lag) calls, everyone else calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB bets, BB folds, call call.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets, UTG calls, I call, Dean raises, SB 3-bets, UTG folds, I fold.

I really think I [censored] this up. I don't know why I called the flop.

daisyglaze 12-31-2005 02:39 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
I would have raised the flop and folded when everyone went nuts on the turn. Def not fold for one bet on the flop.

Kyle 12-31-2005 03:33 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
i usually just raise the flop here but since you know that we will proceed from there.

After calling the flop why no raise on the turn? I think you need to put a raise in somewhere and why not here? Given the action thus far it appears you have the best hand.

I dont know who dean is but since you called him by his name I assume he is decent. Would he really wait to raise an overpair on the turn in a big multiway pot?

I raise turn. If three bet I fold. Raising the turn might drive dean off a better hand but I really doubt it. River should play itself for the most part.

Oh yeah one more thing raise the flop [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Kyle 12-31-2005 03:35 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the flop and folded when everyone went nuts on the turn. Def not fold for one bet on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding on the flop for one bet would be blasmphemy

7ontheline 12-31-2005 03:54 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
Why no raise anywhere? Could you explain what you were thinking? I raise the flop, since with only a 9 I don't want to wait till the turn since so many cards could come and crush me.

kurosh 12-31-2005 04:28 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
Ok, thought about this some more. I think my flop call is correct. I like the entire hand.

Flop call because if I am ahead, I am not getting anyone drawing live against me out. There's a potential of dean raising and other guy capping, and I will have to pay a lot of bets when I am behind. I wanted to see what dean would do too. If I'm 3-bet on the flop, I am behind nearly 100% of the time. Also, if dean raises, it puts me in excellent position to bet into him and clear the field on the turn if I like the card.

The turn, I thought the guy betting out into a field that was 3-bet PF was sane and he, at best, had the same hand as me. I didn't want to pay 3 bets to see a river when he could 3-bet me with a set or two pair. I also had a slight feeling that dean was sandbagging with something like JJ or QQ to raise a safe turn.

Dean is a 2p2er.

Lmn55d 12-31-2005 04:33 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
[ QUOTE ]
Flop call because if I am ahead, I am not getting anyone drawing live against me out.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB won't fold a hand like TJ for 2? Also, Dean can call correctly with a 3 outer (AK/AQ/AJ) if you call but can't if you raise.

EDIT: I'm an idiot and sb bet this flop...for some reason I thought BB bet and Sb was still to act. Disregard this point.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if dean raises, it puts me in excellent position to bet into him and clear the field on the turn if I like the card.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Dean raises the flop after you call I'm not so sure you want to clear the field. In other words, you're usually screwed.

[ QUOTE ]
If I'm 3-bet on the flop, I am behind nearly 100% of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this so bad? You risk one sb to give you some protection if ahead (see above) and get some decent information. Seems worth it to me.

EDIT: Oh, one more thing. A lot of turn cards will make SB freeze up and check to you, denying you the opportunity to make your move.

TheMetetron 12-31-2005 04:36 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
Not raising the flop is really bad.

kurosh 12-31-2005 04:43 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
He would be getting around 9:1 if I raise. Edit: wow, I shouldn't post like this. I thought he had 6 outs with AK.

Right on the second point. I'm a little high right now.

I don't think you realize how much strength SB is showing by betting into a field of 4 after the 3-bet PF.

Lmn55d 12-31-2005 04:46 AM

Re: A few decisions...
 
oh wait, I thought BB bet the flop and SB was still left to act. Since sb bet the flop, it's obviously unlikely he has a JT hand like I said and, if he did, wouldn't fold it for one more.

Because of this, your flop call seems more reasonable than it would if sb was still in. However, my points about sb getting scared on the turn and Dean folding a 3 outer would still make me raise. I do see your reasoning though (Dean is either way ahead of you or drawing to 3 outs), and do not think calling the flop is horrible. However, I still think it's worth investing the extra sb since you're gonna have to see the turn (and probably the river) anyway.


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