Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

Anyone have a very close estimate of the action including player's stacks sizes before the hand, blinds, preflop raise, pot size on the flop, flop bet by Raymer, turn pot size and bet by Raymer, re-raise by Kanter and how much it was for Kanter to call Greg's all in compared to the pot.

The cardplayer report is limited but I believe the ESPN episode picked most of this up. Curious on the pot odds of the situation:

"Hand 20 - Ayhan Alsancak has the button in seat 5, Raymer raises, and Kanter calls. The flop comes 6c-5d-3h, and there's a bet and a call. The turn card is the 7h, Kanter bets $600,000, and the two players are quickly all in. Raymer shows pocket kings (Kd-Kh), and Kanter has Qh-Jh. Kanter has a flush draw, and needs to catch a heart to win the pot. The river card is the 2h, and Kanter makes his flush to double up through Greg Raymer.

Kanter's supporters are ecstatic, and cheering loudly, but the rest of the room is nearly silent as crowd-favorite Greg Raymer loses a huge pot. You can distinctly hear the cheers, but the silence in the rest of the room is almost overpowering. Aaron Kanter now has somewhere between $3.5 and $4 million, while Greg Raymer is crippled down to about $400,000. "

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

Yeah, like how much was Raymer's bet after the flop? Kanter called with nothing but overcards and a backdoor flush draw, something you're more likely to see in a fishy 4/8 limit game.

Then he compounds the error by raising the turn which ended up charging himself all his chips to make his draw. But he sucked out, so no harm no foul. Raymer's comment was pretty good. "You tried to give me all your chips."

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

I'm kind of suprised that Raymer didn't lose it that hand. I'm impressed.

Think about how Phil H. would react in the same situation.

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

I would have raised the turn too. Raymer should have folded to the turn bet. He has one pair on a dangerous board. If I was Raymer, I would have pushed pf or on the flop.

I think he played incorrectly post-flop. If he was going to be in it for long haul, he should have pushed the flop. If Raymer was scared of ace coming on turn or river, AT-AK has only 3 outs and will likely fold to a flop push.

The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

I have total respect for Raymer for reacting like that, but you gotta think in his head he's thinking, "this guy Kanter is an absolute idiot for putting all his chips in with that hand". Considering the hand, if Raymer did react differently, you cannot fault him.

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

So you are discounting Gregs read?

Pushing it pre-flop would be crazy. Pushing it on the flop would be crazy. Greg had a pretty big stack and overbetting pre-flop or the flop would only get him called by a better hand.

One can argue that he underbet the flop or the turn, but that is Greg's way of playing. He is not going to pot bet all the time. He would rather underbet which allows him to do it for a lot more than just his good hands.

If you were Greg, you wouldn't have won in 2004 or made it to 25th in 2005.

Ken

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the turn too. Raymer should have folded to the turn bet. He has one pair on a dangerous board. If I was Raymer, I would have pushed pf or on the flop.

I think he played incorrectly post-flop. If he was going to be in it for long haul, he should have pushed the flop. If Raymer was scared of ace coming on turn or river, AT-AK has only 3 outs and will likely fold to a flop push.

The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

So after seeing one hand in a heavily edited vaccum, you think you can analyze a play better than somebody who was there?

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would have raised the turn too. Raymer should have folded to the turn bet. He has one pair on a dangerous board. If I was Raymer, I would have pushed pf or on the flop.

I think he played incorrectly post-flop. If he was going to be in it for long haul, he should have pushed the flop. If Raymer was scared of ace coming on turn or river, AT-AK has only 3 outs and will likely fold to a flop push.

The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raymer, should fold the turn? What was so dangerous about the board, the flush draw? I think Raymer put Kanter on a smaller pp. And Raymer thought Kanter was raising the turn because he figured Kanter put him on AK or high cards. Raymer played the hand good, just got outdrawn.

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm kind of suprised that Raymer didn't lose it that hand. I'm impressed.

Think about how Phil H. would react in the same situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
It sucks that people are surprised when other people aren't jackasses.

Re: Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raymer should have folded to the turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

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