Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

Loose game at Greektown in Detroit. Blinds are 2-2-5, with 2 on the button. I have about $1200. I'm on the button with 55. In this game, if people call the first $5 they will call $35 or $40 more. 2 loosies call, a good, tight player with about $1100 makes it $35, two people call, I call, original limpers call. 6 to the flop with about $200 in the pot. Flop is A52 rainbow. It checks around to me, I bet $70. Orinal preflop raiser makes it $170. I call. On the turn he bets $100. What's the play?

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

well i am sure you know you have him crushed and are well ahead at this point, so i hope you are asking how to get the most chippeys in the pot by showdown.

no one is ever a fan of 6-handed flops with Aces, so im sure he avoided that.

anyhow, i think there is a chance he was hoping to check-raise big one of the loosey players and play a big pot with his AK for TPTK if one of them bet. instead he got you betting and calling his check-raise and showing a ton of strength. and realizes he is out of position in a big pot with just a pair. so he bets terribly weak hoping you are holding AQ and will slow down right along with him.

i don't think a big turn-raise can get that much money in the pot if he can get off his hand, which is what the weak bet suggests.

so you are left with either:
turn-raising smallish, say 125 more so that he knows he is beat but bring himself to fold for that small a raise into a big pot with TPTK. and then again value bet into him on the river if he checks to you, or value-raising the river if he makes a block bet.

or, calling his turn bet with the intention of value raising the river or value-betting when checked to. i think i may prefer the first option, but it is player dependant.

also, it would help to know what the turn card was, particularly if it were an A, K, or Q. but assuming it was a rag i think those lines may be most profitable.

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

Sorry I should have mentioned that, the turn was the 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], putting 2 spades on board.

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

This looks like one of two things:

1. a blocking bet from AK. He doesn't want to give a free card, but also doesn't want to commit a ton of money with only one pair. Best option: min raise. He'll hate that. He'll call. Now that the pot is even bigger, he'll pay off more on the river, and if he improves, you might stack him.

2. Aces. He's betting small trying to look weak, and praying you'll raise. Best option: min raise. Now he comes over the top trying to "look like he's trying to steal it" and you muck. You get away cheaper this way than calling and paying off the river bet.

Good luck.
Eric

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

I prefer reraising him on the flop, maybe putting it up to 400. That tells him you're prepared to put all your chips in. He'd surely reraise all in with top set. If he does it's down to your judgement.

As it is, you still don't really know where he's coming from on 4th street. His small bet could mean a few things. You have to at least call.

If your hand is behind it's unfortunate and you'll lose a decent amount of chips but I feel the flop reraise gives you a better chance of escape if you're looking for a way out. Personally, I'm going to have to be near certain he has aces before I pull out of this hand. I think I play it like I want all the chips in the middle and will vary the moves to accomplish this depending on the opponent.

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

you should also be afraid of AKs or AQs for the TPTK whith runner runner flush draw on the flop. unless the ace was a spade of course.

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

I'd make it 300 on the turn, it would be hard for AK to get away on an A 5 8 x board. Then put in another value bet on the river, say maybe 350.

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

Hey,

Nice playing with you the other day. Who was this hand against? That will help me out. But I like the idea of a minraise, but maybe a little more, maybe 250, a lot of the times with these players you already know whether or not you are going to stack off with a set. Betting amounts are arbitrary, some guys there you just know whatever you bet you are going to get the money in, others, wouldn't even call a reraise of $1...either way, I stand by 250 as the way to go....

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

the general problem I have with minraising is good players will fold to minraises because they know what they imply, and minraises are rarely bluffs. oftentimes it's easier to fold one pair to a minraise than it is to a bigger raise.

--turnipmonster

Re: Flop middle set in a big pot. What\'s the play?
 

that's why minraise bluffing is so damn profitable vs. good players [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] - especially when they see you minraise a set against a bad player...