Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

So, I had a really great day today (as in, 120 BB good), which has greatly aided me in my current "build-a-bankroll-from-$50" experiment.

Tonight I managed to find myself at one of the best tables I've played in awhile. The table VPIP was 39, and featured two really big fish: a guy I had at 90/40/3 or something outrageous like that over 20 hands, and another very bad player who loved to argue and though he was much better than he was, though was like 60/5/.6 or something. The table had a 12 person waiting list at 4 am.

In the following hand, UTG is the first villain mentioned. He's a total freak. He had earlier three-bet KQo, proceeded to call multiple bets on a JJx flop and turn, then check-raise bluffed an A river only to call a three-bet from my AJ. So he's nuts.

MP3 is the second villain. The button and SB are like the many masses who make up the Party 2/4.


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Deranged is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Deranged calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Deranged checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Deranged calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Deranged bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, Deranged calls.

River: (11 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Deranged checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, Deranged calls.

Final Pot: 13 BB


I'm open to all thoughts.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

I like it all given your reads.

Build-a-bankroll-from-$50 experiment sounds weird.

Why not a turn-10BB-at-50/100-into-100k-bankroll instead? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

The turn bet was magnifique. I would consider 3-betting (edit)pre-flop though I'd probably lean against it. Obviously what I thought about the other players you dont give reads for would decide me.

And ofcourse, you have to call that river.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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Why not a turn-10BB-at-50/100-into-100k-bankroll instead? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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That's more of a lifetime experiment. This is more of a "teach myself to not but a [censored] and spend my bankroll on food and drink" experiment.

Spending (not playing) over my bankroll is like DEFINITELY my biggest leak as a player... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

Geez you spend ridiculous amounts of cash of food too? I think learning how to cook will be +EV for many 2+2ers.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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I think learning how to cook will be +EV for many 2+2ers.



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I don't have the patience for it. When I'm hungry I want to eat not cook, and when I'm not hungry, I want to work or study or watch the game, etc

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

Nice turn play. I assume if he doesn't raise and you get overcalled, you check and fold a bet from the other guys and check and don't overcall a bet from him?

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

3-bet the turn/value bet the river?

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

considering what he has done with King high on a much scarier board, this is actually pretty standard. i would not play it differently; you never know, even maniacs catch a pair of deuces every once in a while so i wouldn't go 3betting the turn or anything(not that it may not be profitable against such a bluffoon, i just wouldn't do it). i think you got just the right amount of action as it played out. NH.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

could somebody, please, explain to me the point of the turn bet?

Thanks

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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could somebody, please, explain to me the point of the turn bet?

Thanks

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i sort of thought it was so the maniac would raise and blow out the field. i could be wrong, though.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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could somebody, please, explain to me the point of the turn bet?

Thanks

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Because AJ is ahead of most of UTG's hands, and he will probably raise a donk bet with whatever trash he has, most of them not as good as AJ. If he raises, the player at 2/4 probably won't understand what's going on, and they will fold a better hand.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

I'm lost on this hand after the flop.

I guess I understand the turn bet, but I don't know about the river call.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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could somebody, please, explain to me the point of the turn bet?

Thanks

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Because AJ is ahead of most of UTG's hands, and he will probably raise a donk bet with whatever trash he has, most of them not as good as AJ. If he raises, the player at 2/4 probably won't understand what's going on, and they will fold a better hand.

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does it have anything to do with the paired board? Would you have donked the turn if it was a blank?

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

Seems like it's the wrong opponent to try this type of play against, especially with a weak hand like AJo. You can't expect him to play worse hands than AJo like that everytime... Choose a better hand and go after him, AJ is a meh.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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Nice turn play. I assume if he doesn't raise and you get overcalled, you check and fold a bet from the other guys and check and don't overcall a bet from him?

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Yep.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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I'm lost on this hand after the flop.

I guess I understand the turn bet, but I don't know about the river call.

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This hand is ENTIRELY read-based.

The idea is this: The maniac could basically have any two cards. With a bunch of low cards and a paired board, it is much more likely than usual that no one has a pair in his hand yet. So the idea is that my AJ has a lot of showdown value at this point, and I kind of want to show it down in what is a pretty big pot.

One way to accomplish this would be to just go into calldown mode. But that has the bad effect of letting the other players see the river for one bet. If they have weak pairs, hands like KQ, or maybe even better As, I want them to fold. They probably don't realize how crazy the maniac is.

So I bet the turn in the hopes that the maniac will raise and blow away the field. Then I get the hand heads-up with the maniac, and, based on reads, that situation is very favorable.

The turn is a better place to do this than the flop because tons of turn cards hurt my hands (so I want to see a safe turn card) and it will be much easier to protect my hand/push my edge when the big bets come.

I call the river because that's the entire point. The maniac will raise the turn with tons of hands that are worse than mine. I am NOT in a bet/fold unimproved situation. My hand is going to be good pretty often regardless of what the maniac does. I'm HOPING he raises the turn, in fact.

Results: Maniac showed K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHIG!

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

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Results: Maniac showed K J and MHIG!

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nice hand, i wonder if hes more likely to bet this or to call a bet with this, i have no idea

of course hes probably likely to have like 6 high or something too which he most likely will not call a bet with

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

I think this is results-based thinking and you should have known to fold the flop since you were most likely drawing very thin against 83o.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

First of all, thanks for the great reply. I was hoping you would answer it, and you did.

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Results: Maniac showed K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHIG!

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Un-[censored]-able! That's great.

I guess this isn't really a bluff, but rather calling a bluff, right? It seems the few times this has happened to me, Villian ended up pairing at least, and sometimes actually had a hand at the end. Maybe I'm being too results-oriented for the few times I've been burned.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

[ QUOTE ]
First of all, thanks for the great reply. I was hoping you would answer it, and you did.

[ QUOTE ]
Results: Maniac showed K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and MHIG!

[/ QUOTE ]

Un-[censored]-able! That's great.

I guess this isn't really a bluff, but rather calling a bluff, right? It seems the few times this has happened to me, Villian ended up pairing at least, and sometimes actually had a hand at the end. Maybe I'm being too results-oriented for the few times I've been burned.

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It's not really a bluff in the truest sense. It's more of a promotion play, or what might be termed a "value-bluff."

The idea is that I can beat one guy but maybe not the other two; so I use him to improve the relative standing of my hand.

The major points in considering this play:

1. The maniac. We need a REAL crazy here. I needed to be pretty sure not only that he'd often have a worse hand than mine, but that he'd often raise with it to improve my equity.

2. Board texture. This doesn't make sense if the board had a K, Q, or even T. The fact that ever card was so low and that the board was paired gave me some confidence that most of the players in the hand probably missed the board, meaning either my hand was often pretty good or that they had hands that wouldn't likely continue with.

3. Relative position. The fact that I'm next to the maniac is key here. I'd actually prefer to be on his left, so I could raise/check-raise him and have more control over the outcome, but this guy was such a lag that I could bet into him knowing he'd raise a good majority of the time.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

Clearly a UBER read dependent player. NH.

Re: Playing A-high at the Best Table Ever
 

Is this play (turn donk with hopes of blowing out field) really profitable at 2/4? From my experience, it seems when a super aggro-fish has been at a table for a while, the table tends to overcall against plays like this much more often then usual... how much would this negate the value of this play?

.... pocket two calldown for the win. =D