Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

UTG is very solid ABC multitabling TAG, probably 2+2er. No funny business. Stats are: 25/20/3.91 over 500+ hands, 5.7 on flop, 5 on turn and 1.5 on river. I'm guessing his pre-flop capping range is somewhere around TT-AA, AKs, AKo, AQs, AQo, KQs.

Button is megafish preflop (46/3/.06 over 115 hands) but semi-aggressive post flop with aggression of: 1.1 on flop, 1.9 on turn and 5.75 on river. Very, very strange player.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (15.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 19.20 BB

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I now that 115 hands is not a lot, but he's 5.75 on the river and it's a huge pot. I underestand that your chances may be meek, but I'd still call this river.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

Do you have a hand range of these two opponents where I can take this pot down 10% of the time? Maybe the megafish is pulling off the riverbluff of the century, but what is UTG staying to the river with that I can beat?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

Good, easy fold.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

that fold shouldnt be hard

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have a hand range of these two opponents where I can take this pot down 10% of the time? Maybe the megafish is pulling off the riverbluff of the century, but what is UTG staying to the river with that I can beat?

[/ QUOTE ]

oh sorry, my mistake, I thought it was one bet to you. No, I don't think you'll take this one one in 10...but I still find folding difficult, but probably correct.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I'm a little confused why you 3-bet the solid player's UTG pfr OOP.

The way it played out, I'm a little confused why you led the flop.

The way that played out, I think the river fold is fine.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I don't think Ed would tell you to call 2 with that action. It's a much more interesting question had the button only called. And what Redd said: Do we want to lead the flop and if we do, do we 3-bet it, given this guy's "no-nonsense" style and capping range?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I don't think I 3-bet this flop.

River is an easy fold.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I'd check/raise the flop. And the pot really isn't that big at the river, you're getting ~9.6 to 1 at best, although I think the best you can hope for is 4.8 to 1 once in awhile.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I don't see how such ridiculously high flop and turn ag's can makes him 'ABC'.


I doubt you can be ahead or split here....just pointing out that he is REALLY hyper-ag on flop and turn streets (and surprisingly tame on the river).

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/raise the flop. And the pot really isn't that big at the river, you're getting ~9.6 to 1 at best, although I think the best you can hope for is 4.8 to 1 once in awhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does check-raising the flop accomplish?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

I don't think i've known a player that has 25/20 that has an AF of 5+ on the flop? Does he way over play his hands on the flop? Given UTG's range that you gave I don't understand why you would 3 bet the flop unless you think he would go to town on you with TT, JJ or KQs or something on this flop? I call the flop raise and call down/reevaluate.

I can't see how you can call two bets on the river. Regardless of what Button has (maybe a slowplayed flush/maybe nothing) I don't think you beat UTG enough. Maybe its cause I'm drunk but if there weren't a flush there and knowing enough about the specifics of each player what do you think about a river 3-bet?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
What does check-raising the flop accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]
It traps the button. I would have mindlessly led the flop, but when I read about the c/r, I like it. Since he still has the initiative, let him lead. I think you're ahead on this flop a ton against someone who raises 20% of their hands.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little confused why you 3-bet the solid player's UTG pfr OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because against someone who raises 20% of their hands preflop, you're going to have them dominated with AQ a hell of a lot more than you'll be dominated.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think i've known a player that has 25/20 that has an AF of 5+ on the flop? Does he way over play his hands on the flop? Given UTG's range that you gave I don't understand why you would 3 bet the flop unless you think he would go to town on you with TT, JJ or KQs or something on this flop? I call the flop raise and call down/reevaluate.

I can't see how you can call two bets on the river. Regardless of what Button has (maybe a slowplayed flush/maybe nothing) I don't think you beat UTG enough. Maybe its cause I'm drunk but if there weren't a flush there and knowing enough about the specifics of each player what do you think about a river 3-bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I 3-bet flop since megafish was coming along for the ride with a wide variety of hands, there was a flush draw on the board, and because UTG was so damned aggressive on the flop in general.

Not so sure about a river 3-bet...what's the reasoning behind it?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd check/raise the flop. And the pot really isn't that big at the river, you're getting ~9.6 to 1 at best, although I think the best you can hope for is 4.8 to 1 once in awhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does check-raising the flop accomplish?

[/ QUOTE ]

What does leading the flop accomplish? You'll get him to fold a 2-outer and raise a dominating hand.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

Is he folding JJ here for one bet in a 13-bet pot?

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm a little confused why you 3-bet the solid player's UTG pfr OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because against someone who raises 20% of their hands preflop, you're going to have them dominated with AQ a hell of a lot more than you'll be dominated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget that this solid player will tighten up his raising standards UTG to somewhere between like ~13%-15%. And while we might have a small edge, we're not that great against his range, especially OOP. IMO we give up our good relative position by pushing a small edge OOP.

Re: Ed Miller be damned, I\'m folding (5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is he folding JJ here for one bet in a 13-bet pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't surprise me. Don't forget he's paying 5 of those bets for a showdown with almost no chance to improve. But why give him the opportunity to fold? Even if he'll almost always call JJ, he's always always going to bet it.