Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

Here's a question about playing out of turn.

I'm at my local tiny cardroom playing 4/8 holdem with the regulars on a Monday afternoon. Mostly retired old guys and other people that don't have jobs with daytime hours. I pick up A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB, and I raise after five limpers, all call.

Flop comes Ace high with one spade, I bet out, and get two callers. Turn comes K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], I bet out again, one player folds, and the button (a really nice, polite young-ish guy, maybe 25 or so) calls time.

He looks me over, and says, "I know you have a made hand, and just so you know, I'm calling trying to hit a gutshot." The only gutshot out there is broadway, so he's holding QJ, JT, or QT (if he's telling the truth, which I'm 90% sure he is).

The river card is Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], perfect. As soon as it falls, I decide I'm betting, praying that he's holding JT and will raise me. But before I bet, he announces "check".

I say with a smile, "Well, you're not checking, because I bet." Then he thinks for a second and says, "Okay, then I raise." As I'm getting my chips for the 3-bet, the dealer tells him, "Sir, you cannot raise after checking out of turn."

I stop the show, because this decision is costing me two big bets here, and maybe more (if he reraises...and there's no cap). The dealer and several of the other regulars explain that this rule is to prevent the angle shot of inducing a bet by checking out of turn. I think about it, then tell everyone that I understand, and take the pot down with my nut flush, but a little bitter that I lost out on a few more bets.

This is a very friendly club with only a couple of tables, everyone is on a first name basis, and it really wasn't worth fighting over $16 bucks and possibly ruining my reputation there as a nice guy.

Is this standard? Should I have done something different?

EDIT: one detail of the hand corrected.

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

Any action out of turn causes that player to forfeit his ability to raise. A check is included in that, so yes the ruling is correct.

I find it highly unlikely he checked out of turn accidentally though.

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

once you have declared an action you must follow through with that action once it is your turn. This happens all the time with the newbies down in AC... they bet out of turn then want to change their action once the player to their right has acted using the information they stupidly gave away by acting out of turn. I LOVE checkraising in situations like this when i know i've got the nuts. Not sure it should still apply if a person is checking out of turn though but i guess someone could use that to their advantage as well.

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

From Robert's Rules:

[ QUOTE ]
10. Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn may be ruled binding if there is no bet, call, or raise by an intervening player acting after the infraction has been committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

and example of the angle is say you didnt have the nut flush and instead did have the nut str8 [broadway] if he says if he said "well I check" out of turn and now you bet thinking you have best hand dn now he raises...well you see where its going

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any action out of turn causes that player to forfeit his ability to raise. A check is included in that, so yes the ruling is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
I find it highly unlikely he checked out of turn accidentally though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he was a fairly slow and awkward player. He kept his chips in the rack, and counted his bets chip by chip (the 8/16 killpots played pretty slow when he was in). He didn't seem too fleet of mind, and I didn't really peg him as an angle shooter. It did strike me as odd, but like I said, he seemed pretty innocent of the whole deal. I think he just got excited when he hit his gutshot, and couldn't wait to get two bets out of me.

Re: Can\'t raise after checking out of turn?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I LOVE checkraising in situations like this when i know i've got the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I didn't know for sure whether the Q gave him the straight. The A and K were showing, and he had two of Q, J, and T. If he held, say, QJ, and I check, he checks behind and I lose a bet. Maybe he doesn't call in that situation, sure, but there's no way I can check here unless I pick up some read (shaking hand, whatever) that tells me that he's made his hand.