How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

this is purely a personal poll as everyone may get something different from 2+2. Player XYZ may be an affiliate and miss its being covered here, or Player ZYX may find this new policy a godsend. Just curious how everyone finds the zoo with this new rule. this is also the first poll i have ever posted (i think [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img])

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

on the one hand, the zoo is less cluttered.

on the other hand. that traffic has simply moved offsite, so its a potentially poor business move.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I don't have a problem with it, it just needs its own forum.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

Like they need that traffic.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

it's not the affiliate talk i minded, but the affiliate talk/questions over and over. If only there could be a sticky that eliminates repeated questions [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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Like they need that traffic.

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im not sure whether there is more/less desirable traffic when your are pricing advertising based on page views. but i certainly dont know the strategy/pricing structure that 2+2 employs.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

Firstly i'm not an affiliate anymore so this isn't spam.

But i think it's stupid to blocked it, affiliates and rake back is a benefital service for people who visit here, just like Homer's casino posts and like posts of new bonus codes. The only difference here is one person stands to benefit as well.

Removing it just makes people less aware and means everyone misses out on money.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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Firstly i'm not an affiliate anymore so this isn't spam.

But i think it's stupid to blocked it, affiliates and rake back is a benefital service for people who visit here, just like Homer's casino posts and like posts of new bonus codes. The only difference here is one person stands to benefit as well.

Removing it just makes people less aware and means everyone misses out on money.

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I agree with this.

Despite the fact that there was so much of this stuff going on recently how many people from this forum have benfitted from it? Hundreds i would say. Getting money back to the players has to be one of the more important parts of this forum and banning the chat (thats all most of it way) actually helps no one really. Yes ban the habitual spammers but allow people to conduct business via PMs.

The best idea does seem to be to have a seperate forum purely for affiliates and rakeback.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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The best idea does seem to be to have a seperate forum purely for affiliates and rakeback.

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THAT would be a scary forum to enter without full protective gear. I think newbies might get hammered so hard with pms from a forum like that, we might kill the fresh stocks of fish..........i do exagerate, but thats sorta the way the zoo was getting before mats ban, i am very split on my opinion this matter, hence my poll.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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The best idea does seem to be to have a seperate forum purely for affiliates and rakeback.

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THAT would be a scary forum to enter without full protective gear. I think newbies might get hammered so hard with pms from a forum like that, we might kill the fresh stocks of fish..........i do exagerate, but thats sorta the way the zoo was getting before mats ban, i am very split on my opinion this matter, hence my poll.

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Thats perhaps something else to consider then........banning any affiliate who sends out unrequested PMs. I actually have never got any unwanted PMs from affiliates so it cannot be that widespread. But yes the Zoo needs cleaning up for sure as far too much crap was going on but to remove it all is to the detrement of us as players.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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The best idea does seem to be to have a seperate forum purely for affiliates and rakeback.

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THAT would be a scary forum to enter without full protective gear. I think newbies might get hammered so hard with pms from a forum like that, we might kill the fresh stocks of fish..........i do exagerate, but thats sorta the way the zoo was getting before mats ban, i am very split on my opinion this matter, hence my poll.

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Thats perhaps something else to consider then........banning any affiliate who sends out unrequested PMs. I actually have never got any unwanted PMs from affiliates so it cannot be that widespread. But yes the Zoo needs cleaning up for sure as far too much crap was going on but to remove it all is to the detrement of us as players.

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Better yet, have an entire system where users can request offers, affiliates can respond to those requests, users can remain anonymous if they chose, users can withdraw requests once they have found an affiliate, and nobody has to see anything that does not apply to them.

I think that would be pretty cool. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

sounds utterly brilliant, someone should get on that sooooooooooon, like last week soon [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

Firstly i'm not an affiliate anymore so this isn't spam.

why? care to tell us?

Removing it just makes people less aware and means everyone misses out on money

removing what???? it was NEVER allowed. do you know that mason david and ray can get in trouble for running a site where bartering kickbacks is allowed? should all of 2+2 be put in jeopardy because certain people were too fuking cheap to buy banners? should 2+2 endanger their current revenue by allowing this and having paid advertisers get so pissed that they pull out? who will pay for the bandwidth then? do you know how much i personally pay them a month? almost $800 and i am a tiny tadpole in their revenue stream. if this tadpole pulls out, they lose $9,600.00 a year. what did you do for this place just to make up for the 10 grand they would have lost from me??

most importantly, do you think even a single person missed out a rebate payment just because mat put his foot down? i think not. rake rebates are alive and well, they just are not going to be procured at 2+2.

don't paint such a doom and gloom picture, because your issues were always self serving anyway. don't try and pretend that the poker community is now screwed because the zoo does not have 50 "need an affiliate" posts every hour.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

so how did you vote granny?

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

so how did you vote granny?

heh..

btw, i forgot to mention in my rant that the ad rates at 2+2 are rising Substantially on 12/1

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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so how did you vote granny?

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She voted for me of course. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But only if I agreed to "accept" Ashcroft's resignation. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I LOVE the change. This place is so much more fun to read now.

Cup

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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Removing it just makes people less aware and means everyone misses out on money

(long rant)



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So are random, first time visitors to the zoo making the same amount from poker now as they would have been if they visited 2 weeks ago?

All the other arguements in this are just conflicts of self interest. You own an ad. I - used to - offer rake back. Hence we just put fancy arguements in with them but it all comes back to that.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I - used to - offer rake back.

i have it on good authority that you are once again an empire affiliate. is this true? i'm asking because before i address the issue you raised about me operating from self-interest, i want to know if i am dealing with someone on a pity pot, or someone that is STILL an affiliate.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

This place is so much more fun to read now.


today is the first day in months that i actually read 80% of the posts. it would have been 100% but i skipped the reef posts since i whored there long ago, and also skipped that monster flame-fest dealing with table chat.

i think this place will be much more informative now. a quick example i can think of is cubswins posts. his threads get buried in the affiliate madness, yet they are probably the mosy important issues to all of us and deserve more attention and discussion.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I am no longer adding players and no longer offering rake back. I have advertisements in real life that are still running, so yes, i am still signed up under tradel, but no, i'm not offering rake back.

So yes, er, you are dealing with someone on a pity pot [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

thanks for being honest.

regarding this:

You own an ad. I - used to - offer rake back. Hence we just put fancy arguements in with them but it all comes back to that.

yes it does come back to that. however, the real issue is that this is a privately owned site that operates on advertising revenue and i entered the game as a paying player. not only that, but i conduct myself here without drawing attention to my ads unless asked a direct question. certain affiliates never bought an ad, yet got way more advertising than i could ever hope for.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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So are random, first time visitors to the zoo making the same amount from poker now as they would have been if they visited 2 weeks ago?


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Who cares? 2+2 has NO obligation to help "random first time visitors" get rake back. Or anyone else for that matter. The purpose of these boards is to let those interested in poker interact with each other to improve their game, not provide affiliates with a customer base.

There was one less page with 'threads active in the last day' than usual when I logged in today. That's how much of this crap there was on a daily basis. The board is better off without it. Thank you Mat.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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Who cares? 2+2 has NO obligation to help "random first time visitors" get rake back. Or anyone else for that matter. The purpose of these boards is to let those interested in poker interact with each other to improve their game, not provide affiliates with a customer base.

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Hammer. Nail. Head.

NH

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

Better yet, the TT crap is gone. Quite a relief!

Adde

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

BOOOOOOOOO

2+2 is a worse place for want of "Loc: I own a castle".

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I have a question.

I know that spamming the forums was never allowed.

Has this new rule now gotten rid of the "i'm looking for a rake-back deal" posts?

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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I have a question.

I know that spamming the forums was never allowed.

Has this new rule now gotten rid of the "i'm looking for a rake-back deal" posts?

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I believe so, given that it was the majority of the problem in flooding the forum. Also, Mat said in his post "Those wishing to sign up under others can peruse the classified ads."

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

Personally, the affiliate/affiliate seeker posts never bothered me. Very little of the content in the Zoo has ever been actually related to playing online poker. It has always been more about what is going on at various sites, which have what bonus, where the fish are, monitors, taxes, etc. It seems to me that discussions of affiliate issues/deals fits in with that.

I would not have gotten Party affiliate/rakeback if it were not for these types of posts, because I would not even have known such a thing existed.

I understand that they are considered spam. But spam is in the eye of the beholder. To me, these posts are no different (being-spam-wise) than the posts announcing the OIC (just advertising a poker site to me), or posts about some big name person making a deal to play at/work with a poker site
(just advertising a poker site to me), or anything to do with BW or casino whoring (just advertising an affiliate site to me). BTW, I don't have any problem with any of these. To me, half the stuff in the Zoo is spam or borderline spam. I just think it's strange to call all these things ok but get all outraged about affiliate posts.

Since there is obviously a large demand for these types of posts, it seems like the logical solution would be a separate forum or subforum.

Obviously, all this is just personal opinion. This is a privately owned, for-profit website, and if it is in the best business interests of the owners to not have these types of posts, or if that's just what they prefer, then that's all that matters.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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This is a privately owned, for-profit website, and if it is in the best business interests of the owners to not have these types of posts, or if that's just what they prefer, then that's all that matters.

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Exactly. This site derives it's revenue from the sale of advertising banners **primarily** purchased by the sites themselves, who offer sign up bonuses but no rake back.

The more clicks, the more revenue for the advertiser, the higher the advertising rates can go. How many clicks do you think were lost to affiliates here?

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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The purpose of these boards is to let those interested in poker interact with each other to improve their game

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No its to sell books and make money off of advertising. There is nothing altruistic about these boards.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

I have to agree that the OIC threads are spam but borderline enough that they provide a service.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

No its to sell books and make money off of advertising. There is nothing altruistic about these boards.

this is exactly true.

while mason may be an altruist to some degree, and all of them may have been altruists when it started, this has become a commercial venture despite the original intentions. nobody, mason included, seems to be wanting to turn the clock back on anything.

therefore, the cutomer (advertiser) is always right in raising a stink when it comes to giving away for free, that for which they are charged.

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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There is nothing altruistic about these boards.

[/ QUOTE ]I think there are elements of both altruism and commercialism on these boards. Could one exist completely devoid of the other?

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

as someone who isn't an affiliate, the site shouldn't be cluttered yet too many people think rakeback is illegal or not worth it, etc. and are wasting $. i like the idea of no clutter, except one forum where you can discuss it all you want. then again, the classifieds kind of takes care of this- but no discussion. it doesn't take long browsing 2+2 atleast to figure out that rakerebatereview and moondogg's site are good to check out. still might be nice for people to share which affiliates to trust or not, etc. on aseperate forum

Re: How Do You Like the Zoo without Affiliate Crap???
 

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as someone who isn't an affiliate, the site shouldn't be cluttered yet too many people think rakeback is illegal or not worth it, etc. and are wasting $. i like the idea of no clutter, except one forum where you can discuss it all you want. then again, the classifieds kind of takes care of this- but no discussion. it doesn't take long browsing 2+2 atleast to figure out that rakerebatereview and moondogg's site are good to check out. still might be nice for people to share which affiliates to trust or not, etc. on aseperate forum

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FYI - I'm not listing affiliates anymore. They are still there, but mostly because I haven't gotten around to taking it down yet (affiliates are no longer being charged and no updates are being made, the whole page should be gone within a few days). www.rakerebatereview.com is the place to go for rakeback deals.