Commerce 20-40NL
 

i have ~12K.
EP is a very good aggressive player, ~18K
LP is a relatively unknown, no real read, ~10K.

i limp with 2-2 in MP, LP raises to $340, five callers to me i call.

flop A-5-5 rainbow.

checked around.

turn 2 (A-5-5).

checked to me i bet $700, LP (pfr) makes it $1900,
folded around to EP who sits up straight in his chair, asks us both for chip counts, then makes it $4000.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

I can only see you somehow winning against AK and 34, but I think A5 or AA is in there somewhere.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

tough spot!

Only hand that makes sense to me for PFR is AA (what else would he check the flop with?)

Is his open raise to 340 standard for this game?


looks like EP has at least 1 five, possibly 2.


If there is a ever a good spot to fold an underfull, I think it is here.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

[ QUOTE ]

i limp with 2-2 in MP, LP raises to $340, five callers to me i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Five callers to you at 8.5x the BB? This may be the loosest game I have ever seen. The only person who likely has AA is the preflop raiser. If that's the case, why would he raise 8.5x the BB? (unless that's the standard raise at your table).

The good player in early position could be making a squeeze play based on his read of the late position player with any 5 (would he be more likely to have 56s or A5s?).

I have a hard time thinking you are behind...unless that LP player has AA. I just don't get the $340 preflop raise with AA.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

I just can't see someone not having A5 here. You said the EP is a very good aggressive player. Does that mean he'll three-bet with air? This is one of those hands in my opinion, where you hit your two-outer against your best interest because it only enticed you to stay in a pot that you were not meant to be in. Unless you have a specific read that suggests that EP is trying to make a move, then I would be done with this hand.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

it's between a push and a fold. i dont like calling b/c you have mr. pfr behind you, and you're calling an allin on a non-Ace non-5 river anyways.

EP is aggro but good, so IMO either he's been building an aggro image to show AA here, or he's trying to take it down with AK/KK/QQ or air.

i have no clue of LP's holdings (minraise could mean anything from 55 to a bluff), which is why it's fold or push.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

Six people see a flop for 8.5X BB. You bet 1/3 of the pot. You get raised 1/3 of the pot. Checkraiser makes a 1/2 pot size reraise.

You sure this wasn't a live 1/2 NL game?

The action is so strange (through the raise to 1900) that the EP is either:
1. building the perfect pot size to stack either of you on the river
2. trying to steal this

What hands would he slow play this board to such an extent (check flop, check turn)? Of course he would do this with quads or A5 (he can not have AA considering his preflop action).

So he either slowplayed a true monster and is building a pot the correct size to stack you guys, or he thinks you guys are both splashing around (1/3 pot size bets and raises could have put that idea in his head) and is trying to steal this. He has the added benefit of using the squeeze play on you (as was mentioned by another poster).

Personally, I give in to his pressure and fold. Although your 1/3 pot size bet (terrible) with an underfull served to muddy the waters for all involved, I really don't think you should continue with this hand. You are in a bad spot.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

I don't think this hand is worth $12,000 to show down. There is not a question that this turn is an easy fold.

Jeff

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

May just be the best NL game in the world.

Fold. Even though, in that game, they may both have air.

Re: Commerce 20-40NL
 

This is a very easy fold, isn't it?

As for the person who said they couldn't see A5, um look at those stacks and a 6way pot, A5s is a really easy call.