Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

I just read "Small Stakes Hold'em" for the second time and I wonder about what is said in the beginning under "Why This Book..." Sklansky suggests "Making well over $50.000 per year playing $3-6 hold'em is now no big deal." This could be done "because you can play two or three games at once". Is this expactation realistic? It seems a little high to me. Is there any 2+2er who could confirm it's possible based on experience? Anyone else with ideas and thoughts about it please post your views about expectations at low limit hold'em.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

They are presumably referring to the internet, where many 2+2ers play 4-8 tables, some play 10. In fact, I assume that virtually all online players at 2+2 probably play more than 1 table at a time.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

$50,000 is an average of $137 per day . . . say you play for 8 hours (including weekends) . . . then you need to make $17.13 per hour (roughly 3bb per hour) . . . if you play 3 tables that is 1bb per hour, per table . . . Play 6 tables and you only need to work for 4 hours instead of 8 . . . etc.

1bb/hr (per table) is a very reasonable win rate for 3/6, you just need to play sightly better than the average Joe at your table =)

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

This post probably should go in the general forum as this is for strategy. But, to answer your question, I would say that this is definitely possible. You can make half of that in RB and bonuses alone. He is definitely talking about someone playing fairly full-time and not part time, but highly doable.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

Yes I'm aware of that, maybe I wasn't clear about my question. May I put it this way: Is it realististic to win more than 50 gran a year on 3/6 (or 5/10) playing 3 tables only following the guidelines of "Small Stakes Hold'em" (and do it well of course) without any extraordinary "expert" skills?
I believe that is what Sklansky says or am I misinterpreting him?

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I'm aware of that, maybe I wasn't clear about my question. May I put it this way: Is it realististic to win more than 50 gran a year on 3/6 (or 5/10) playing 3 tables only following the guidelines of "Small Stakes Hold'em" (and do it well of course) without any extraordinary "expert" skills?
I believe that is what Sklansky says or am I misinterpreting him?

[/ QUOTE ]

I personally would rather kill myself than play 4 table SSHE as a full time job, but yes it is very doable, especially with bonuses.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I'm aware of that, maybe I wasn't clear about my question. May I put it this way: Is it realististic to win more than 50 gran a year on 3/6 (or 5/10) playing 3 tables only following the guidelines of "Small Stakes Hold'em" (and do it well of course) without any extraordinary "expert" skills?
I believe that is what Sklansky says or am I misinterpreting him?

[/ QUOTE ]

In order to eke out the maximum edge, you will have to deviate from the book's advice at times. The key is to know when those times are.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

OK, how high is the SSH strategy working alone (talking online poker)? 5/10?

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just read "Small Stakes Hold'em" for the second time and I wonder about what is said in the beginning under "Why This Book..." Sklansky suggests "Making well over $50.000 per year playing $3-6 hold'em is now no big deal." This could be done "because you can play two or three games at once". Is this expactation realistic? It seems a little high to me. Is there any 2+2er who could confirm it's possible based on experience? Anyone else with ideas and thoughts about it please post your views about expectations at low limit hold'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt even read most of this or the responses. This was talked about to DEATH in the magazine forum. It would be a waste of time to discuss it again.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

If you liked that quote, you'll love the the editor's note to last month's 2+2 magazine where Ed Miller says "Now it seems like maybe that number should be more like $200,000."

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

I think you are taking a "If I do what the book says I'll make a ton of money" approach. You need to have your own individualism, and make decisions off good reads as well as good strategy.

This is how all begginners start out though.. One thing to remember is that you could play those 8 hours a day, (which you wont) everyday, (which you wont) 3 tabling (why just 3??)...and yet after a year (approximate 480,000 hands...at FR) you still wouldnt be close to determining your true W/R.
Poker has swings....BIG swings...no really...BIG SWINGS!!!
especially if you are a good, aggressive player.

Averages are hard to figure out when you add...umm....varience.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes I'm aware of that, maybe I wasn't clear about my question. May I put it this way: Is it realististic to win more than 50 gran a year on 3/6 (or 5/10) playing 3 tables only following the guidelines of "Small Stakes Hold'em" (and do it well of course) without any extraordinary "expert" skills?
I believe that is what Sklansky says or am I misinterpreting him?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've read a few of the 2+2 books, and although they are often considered the definitive works in their area, few players have the ability to organize the strategies into a cohesive game plan and/or lack the discipline to follow them.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room. Online games are much tougher than live, reducing your win rate, but you can multitable, which gets your hourly rate back up.

He has since revised that number greatly upward to reflect online play.

When I played at the Bike, I was lucky to get in 200 hands in a long day, including a grueling drive on the LA freeways. Now I can easily get in 200 hands an hour playing in my underwear.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

Online you will play 60-70 hands per hour per table. 62.5 hands/hr is a good number to use because it makes the math come out pretty.

Assume you 4-table for 8 hours a day for 5 days:
62.5 * 4 * 8 = 2000 hands/day * 5 = 10k hands/week.

Do this for 40 weeks/year = 400k hands/year. We usually talk about winrates as BB/100 hands, so that's 4000 units.

3BB/100 is sustainable at $3/$6.

So that's 4000 * 3 = 12000 BB * $6 = $72000/year.

And there are people sustaining that winrate, or higher, at much higher limits.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

i make $25 an hour 6-tabling 2/4 (this includes rakeback and bonuses) so if I played for ~40 hours/week I would make 50k/year. so i think is is pretty doabe at 3/6

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just read "Small Stakes Hold'em" for the second time and I wonder about what is said in the beginning under "Why This Book..." Sklansky suggests "Making well over $50.000 per year playing $3-6 hold'em is now no big deal." This could be done "because you can play two or three games at once". Is this expactation realistic? It seems a little high to me. Is there any 2+2er who could confirm it's possible based on experience? Anyone else with ideas and thoughts about it please post your views about expectations at low limit hold'em.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Astroglide posted stats that verified it. Some people around here are playing 10 or more tables of 3/6.

peace

john nickle

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
Show me exactly where in his book he says otherwise.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

The spot where he mentions 50k per year? No one is pulling in 50k a year playing live 3/6.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
Show me exactly where in his book he says otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]
In what casino can you "play two or three games at once"?

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

others have done some math here....but it just seems a lot simpler to do the math this way.

$50k/year is the same as $1k/week.
$25/hour will get you $1k/week (40 hours).


To make $25/hour online is really no big deal at all.


4 tables of 3/6 at exactly 1BB/hr (about 1.6BB/100) is $24/hour.
Making another $10 hour (at least) from bonuses and rakeback is pretty easy.


In fact, if you can decently 6-table at 2/4 and 3/6 and have good rake-back and/or bonuses then making $75/year or more is VERY possible (or you could make ytour $1k/wk working FAR less than 40 hours).



BTW - this quote from the foreward about $50k/yr really HAS been talked about to death in the magazine forum as well as (last year) in the books forum.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.
Show me exactly where in his book he says otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wasn't Ed that said it. It was David S. And the full relevant language is:

"On the internet you get to play more hands per hour. In fact, because you can play two or three games at once, you may get to play five times as many hands per hour as in a live game. Plus you don't have to tip. Making well over $50,000 per year playing $3-$6 hold 'em is now no big deal."

How you can you believe that this is a reference to B&M poker? And if it was a reference to B&M poker, then a player playing 3/6 for 2000 hours per year (40 hrs week, 50 wks yr) would need to earn 4 BBs per hour, or somewhere on the order of 12 BB/100 before factoring in tips, and after accounting for the higher rake. ?????

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

it is obviously ridiculous to think a live 3/6 player could make $50k a year.


4BB/hr ($24/hr at live 3/6) would be about 10BB/100 in most fast-ish live games (30-40 hds per hour perhaps)
This wouldn't be possible no matter how bad your opponents were...especially considering the huge rake in live games as well as the general obligation to tip.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
it is obviously ridiculous to think a live 3/6 player could make $50k a year.


4BB/hr ($24/hr at live 3/6) would be about 10BB/100 in most fast-ish live games (30-40 hds per hour perhaps)
This wouldn't be possible no matter how bad your opponents were...especially considering the huge rake in live games as well as the general obligation to tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it's not that difficult at all. You just need x-ray vision.

EDIT: And the self-control not to constantly use it too look through women's clothes.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

ive been curious about this quote over the last month or so, after reading Sklansky's other quote, something to the effect of "to make 50k a year requires an iq of over 130, hard work, discipline, etc."

to me this seems a far cry from "no big deal". either sklansky is getting senile, or he is being quite disingenuous here (or there is another explanation of which i am not aware). can somebody successfully reconcile these two apparently contradictory quotes?

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they have a gun and are gleefully robbing the tables at will, no one is making $50k on a live 3-6 game.

b

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
ive been curious about this quote over the last month or so, after reading Sklansky's other quote, something to the effect of "to make 50k a year requires an iq of over 130, hard work, discipline, etc."

[/ QUOTE ]

David thinks that having an IQ over 130, working somewhat hard, and having some discipline is no big deal. I agree.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

My 7 months at 3/6 has me at a pace for $79,000 for the year.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Ed was referring to playing 3/6 in a live card room.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they have a gun and are gleefully robbing the tables at will, no one is making $50k on a live 3-6 game.

b

[/ QUOTE ]


50k is about 1500 per week. that's about $210 a day. that's about $8.75/hr. so at 1.5 bb/hr you can make 50k playing 3/6 live! if you're good and can win 2 bb/hr, youd only have to play every day for around 18 hours! EZEZEZEZEZEZ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$444444

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

I think I could make more than 50k a year playing 2/4.

With rake back I would change the statement to 'I know'.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ive been curious about this quote over the last month or so, after reading Sklansky's other quote, something to the effect of "to make 50k a year requires an iq of over 130, hard work, discipline, etc."

[/ QUOTE ]

David thinks that having an IQ over 130, working somewhat hard, and having some discipline is no big deal. I agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel incredibly blessed to have an IQ of 128. I almost feel like I won a major prize in the Ovarian lottery. I didn't do anything to deserve what I have other than being born.

You are correct that an IQ of 130 or higher is no big deal though - unless of course you actually do something worthwhile with it.

It's not about what you are blessed with.

It's about what you do with your blessings.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are correct that an IQ of 130 or higher is no big deal though - unless of course you actually do something worthwhile with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

How many tables, bro?

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

well i guess the quote is not necessariliy contradictory. i think it is definitely misleading, though, for your average joe, with an average iq. he will read this line, and soon entertain silly fantasies of playing professional poker. personally, though, i think someone with an iq of around 75 could be taught without excessive difficulty to succeed at party 2/4, so perhaps the quote is not so harmful.

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

[ QUOTE ]

50k is about 1500 per week.

[/ QUOTE ]



Ummm....how many weeks are there in a year again??

(hint - it's not 33)

Re: Quotation from \"Small Stakes Hold\'em\"
 

ahhh. that is funny, bob. maybe now it will only take 12 hours a day?