Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

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Total trash like 72o, Q2o, J3o are 1:28 chance to hit a solid hands like 2 pair or better. So bascially the only time you play those is when the SB is 2/3. With 5 callers and the BB you are getting 21:1 on your hand right there. If you flop 2 pair or better can easily make the remaining bets later on down easily. With that many players someone hit.

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If a computer cannot successfully play by such formulae, and such formulaic approaches to the game, NEITHER CAN YOU.

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

If i'm HU in a B&M game I generally chop unless the table is short handed. When short handed please see CORed's post...

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

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If you flop badly (which of course you will the overwhelming majority of the time) you simply check/fold.

The profibility of a hand is not only how often it wins but how much it wins.

It's clear that more people in the hand makes 92o worse and worse in terms of how OFTEN it will win, but it improves how MUCH it will win on the occasions it does.



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A couple of things I don't think anyone has pointed out yet. First off, if you flop a monster, who's going to call you? Second, even if you do flop 2 pair, your hand is quite vulnerable to getting counterfeitted. You assume that when you flop a monster, you'll be able to extract enough to make up for the more likely check/fold post-flop occurences. I disagree with that.

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

The real question is, then, will the extremely rare times that your junk flops a monster ,and it holds up, make up for all the half bets you'd be pissing away in the sb, especially if you frequently play loose/limping tables. I'm not sure, but i think pzhon is saying that it wouldn't, or that completing sb w/ junk against large fields has an overall negative expectation.

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

I will give this one a try!
Considering two cards that can't be used to make a str8 or a flush u can feel confident if u flop the following hands:

Two pair (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:49,
(however this will very likely give u 2 small pairs which are really easy to loose money with if u can't judge when they no longer are the best hand.)

Trips (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:73

A full house (using both of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:1087


Quads (using one of your pocket cards) from two non-pair cards - 1:9799

If these are the kind of hands u plan to flop the combined odds are:
15:427 ~ 1:28,5

Plz correct me if I'm wrong...

So if u take that into account you never have odds if u don't have a good enough read to KNOW that u will get payed from some LAG player who don't know what he's doing and therefor giving u implied odds. So unless u KNOW that someone will pay u off.. throw the hand away.

That's my way of looking at it anyway.

GL

//SUND

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

It's also correct - in theory at least - to call with garbage if you are facing a field of rocks who muck way too often when they fail to nail the flop.

If your opponents ALWAYS call, call with trash and hope YOU hit the flop hard.

If your opponents [almost] NEVER call, call with trash and hope THEY don't [hit the flop hard].

*

This is more of an academic point; it doesn't work well in practice.

Calling with nothing then firing at the flop for drill solely because your opponents are squeaky tight is a poor long term plan -

If you do it repeatedly they won't stay rocks for long. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

Hey I didnt say I like to do it but with a 2/3 blind usualy any 2 cards will do, even the books say that. Your getting too much for your money.

Re: When to Complete SB w/Garbage
 

How do you know when you have flopped a monster with a trash hand? If flop comes A22, you cant be sure your 92off is good. Even a sucker who plays J2off got you solid beat. Same problem with J5s. Flop a flush and you still dont know whether your flush is good. Flop AJ5 and someone with AJ will take your stack.
I find these hands difficult to play. Its seems almost impossible to know when to bet and when to check/fold in those rare cases you hit something.