PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

Do you tuck your tail under and run like I did here?

$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
CO ( $467.40 ), OUT ( $0 ), BUT ( $609 ),
SB ( $137.79 ), UTG ( $405.20 ), UTG+1 ( $370.20 ),
UTG+2 ( $240.60 ), Hero ( $409.20 ), BB ( $348 ),
MP2 ( $396 )

Hero is MP1 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB posts $2.
BB posts $4.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls $4, Hero raises $18, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>,
BUT calls $18, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $14, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>

<font color="blue">Flop</font>: (57.00) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets $57,
BUT raises $228, BB is all-In $330,
Hero folds, BUT calls $102

Results in white below:
<font color="#FFFFFF">

Turn: (774.00) 9c


River: (774.00) Kh



BUT shows 4h, 3h, 4c, 5c a full house, Fours full of kings.
BB shows 7s, Kd, Kc, 6s four of a kind, kings.

BB wins $774 from the main pot with four of a kind, kings.
There was no qualifying low hand.

</font>

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

Yes, with a guy pushing, you might say well he might be pushing a draw, but when a second one calls, its obvious that at least one has you crushed. You would be putting all your money to chase the low without backup. Not something I like to do very often. I would have gotten out as well.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

IMHO this is just a brag thread for a laydown that saved you money. If you were genuinely interested in people's comments you would provide some commentary on the players you were up against and your reads on them and how the table was playing.

That being said, I think that would have been a -EV call by you under most circumstances. You are most likely facing trips, the nut low draw and possibly the spade draw as well, with virtually no chance at the high, and at best a half if the right low comes, and possibly even quartered if it does.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

Actually, I'm looking for a line to draw to fold AA. This post is a follow-on to two other hands that I've posted where several prominent posters said I should push my money in when I thought a fold was in order. In fact, it wouldn't make sense for me to brag about this laydown since a call would have ended up (just barely) EV+. I could post reads, etc., but there was nothing out of the ordinary about these players and I was looking for a general rule against typical competition.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

I didn't think it was a brag thread.

This is obviously why my pot limit game is weak. I would have called chasing the low. I have to get it into my thick skull that only chasing half the pot in that situation is not a good idea.

Well played.

Dave

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have to get it into my thick skull that only chasing half the pot in that situation is not a good idea.

Well played.

[/ QUOTE ]

Learning this concept is quite probably the most important thing I've learned to date. It has certainly saved me more $$ than I ever would have imagined. I still have plenty of leaks, but closing this one leak has pushed me from being a net loser to a net winner.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

Dave,

I think your point (about getting it through your thick skull not to chase a low) - is even more valid when you have an unprotected low, as emptyshell did here. He could have called those bets and then been counterfeited instantly.
Though it's always hard to lay down A, 2, and especially pocket Aces, when the board is not favoring you it's best to let them go. (And that's when, in my latest experiences the next card is an Ace, and then the board doubles). I've been trying to give a name to that tortuous feeling of watching mucked hands turn into huge winners. I don't care how appropriate the fold was, after a while it can be annoying!
For example the other day it kept happening over and over again and the final blow was when I mucked my last hand (which was: 3h, 5c, 8d, Js) but watched the dealer put down the flop, which was: Jh, Jd, 9x. As I started to leave I saw the turn: Jc. Quad Jacks, had I played the hand. Of course - what else would happen on a day like that. The next time I played the lady who had been sitting next to me told me that after I left the man who sat in my seat went on to make eight racks, one right after the other.
Oh well.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

no brainer, I call

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

Heh. Now I've read through the rest of the hand and the replies. It's funny to me that everybody has agreed that calling is wrong here, even though it's EV+ here. Seems like some are being swayed by the results of this hand and not the math. It's pretty tough to be worse off than 3:1 with nut low draw, backdoor flush draw, and an overpair.

Sure, you could be up against nut low and trips, but you could also be up against some deuche with 5,6,7 and another guy with two pair (which AA is very live against). Many party players will play this way with nothing but the nut flush draw, also. This isn't a Steve Badger pro-quality game, it's a bunch of morans at party poker.

So I'd say that given the quality of the players this is a no brainer call. But if you're trying to reduce your variance for whatever reason, or trying to avoid an image of someone who likes action, I guess I could be convinced that folding is a reasonable possibility.

Re: PLO8, yet another AA hand
 

It was a close one for me, and if there was only one guy pushing, I would've called for sure. With two people, I figured I was unlikely to get high (although I did have four outs for a wheel, up to 2 outs for a set of aces (but likely 1 or none), and the backdoor flush draw. I really expected to see a wheel wrap, in which case I would be in real trouble.

I still feel like the fold was correct here, although it would basically take a raise and a call to get me out. A call and a raise would not have done it.