J8o
 

So I followed a maniac to a table and he left, and it's me, 3 tags, a true donkey, and a weak player. The donkey is to my right (~54/3/.50), then the toughest of the tags, then the weak guy. To my left is a TAG that tries to get tricky but hasn't quite figured it all out yet. The last guy is a solid, but predictable, TAG.

Lately the donkey has been getting cold-carded and there's been a LOT of folding around and/or folding the flop for one bet.

I'm waiting to jump tables to follow the maniac but sticking it out thanks to my position on donkey boy, hoping he starts playing cards again.

I have also not been playing anything in maybe 30, 40 hands, and I get the impression that the TAGs have begun to start trying to run me over. Either that or they keep getting cards and I don't. But whatever.

I get J8o in the bb.

Tricky tag folds. Predictable tag raises. Folded to donkey who cold calls. I call. (Horrendous? Terrible? My thinking was... I can read the action and get the tag to fold a bunch here, and I have position on the donk. I can win this hand UI some reasonable percentage)

Of course, the flop comes rainbow AKT.

Check, check, bet, call, I...

Re: J8o
 

fold, even if you hit your gs it maybe a split pot, getting only 8-1 I fold.
I usually fold pf, not sure how correct that is though.

Re: J8o
 

Preflop call, borderline.

Flop- I fold.

Re: J8o
 

I would probably fold this preflop...though i would call with J8s.

I think its marginal on the flop..if you call and catch your Q its likely you will make enough to justify a call especially with the donkey in the hand.

I would probably make a slightly loose call on the flop and fold pretty much any turn other than the Q...though i dont think folding is bad at all.

Re: J8o
 

I confess to being a bit lost on position, but if the predictable TAG raiser is in the CO, I'll make the preflop call getting 5:1 against the range of a possible steal. If his raise came from UTG or MP, I'll fold preflop.

The only reason I'd make the flop call is if you think the TAGs are trying to take shots at you. In that case, see if a Q comes on the turn. If you're leaving soon anyway, fold.

Re: J8o
 

The pre-flop would be better without the cold-calling loose passive player. He a) increases your chance of being dominated b) heavily decreases the chance of you taking down the pot u/i. I think you can squeeze out a bit of value here, but I also don't see much wrong with folding PF.

The flop sucks, you weren't the pre-flop aggressor so I wouldn't bother trying to make a play here. If the loose passive has any piece of this board he's probably going to showdown. Fold.

Re: J8o
 

your only true outs are to a Q and even that could be to a split on occasion. Not to mention your implied odds are crap if u do get the Q. U cant expect to make much and the only way u get excessive action is with a split, in which rake wins. Two pair, set and stuff will call u down trying to hit outs, and will probably even call a river bet (two pair calling a river bet would be crap imo, but hey whatever, just my opinion).

Your J and 8 outs are usually not that, not outs. (damn courier font for not having voice inflections).

Anyway, your hand is crap, I fold usually *(see next paragraph). Also preflop, most ppl will tell u I HATE TO FOLD, literally I do. I will play trash OTB or in the sb in super short pots in order to float or steal on the flop...but J8o is borderline-ish (almost always call an sb steal though. The only reason to not call in that situation is because its Phil Ivey stealing...but if thats the case Id 3bet and go toe-to-toe w/ that mofo. Seriously, I would). I would only usually call for stealing factors like u stated.

Im only staying in to try and steal, u could try and c/r and see what happens. I hate calling (well u could c/c and donk turn occasionally as well, but that line is not so hot usually, depends).

Re: J8o
 

this looks like two pretty clear folds to me.

Re: J8o
 

I don't call a raise with J8o ever, not even a steal raise. Just my two cents, however.