Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

During depositing on recent reload bonus I got this on e-mail:

[ QUOTE ]
A raked hand is any hand in which a rake (house drop) is taken out of the pot. A player is
considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in
that hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

compare it with what I got last month:

[ QUOTE ]
A raked hand is any hand in which a rake (house drop) is taken out of the pot. To accumulate
raked hands you need to participate in hands (any game, any limit) where a rake is collected.
Hands played at tournaments are not counted towards the raked hands count since rake is not
collected in tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is not party raked hands is not dealt hand with rake?

Anyone can confirm or disprove it?

And if it's true - what a conversion rate of new raked hands to dealt hands?

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

i think contribution to rake means you can get cards and fold still

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

link?

edit: nevermind i see you say it's in an email....

double edit: im skeptical of the wording of that sentence that mentions "1 cent." smells fishy.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

this affects rakeback significantly then

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

That's a point!

For now I playing throught this reload and will say my conversion ratio ASAP.

I wonder if anyone can say about it....

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I know somebody that was offered a reload bonus in oct. 30% up to 100 and he had to play the usual amount of hands (700). Raked hands were counted as they usual are.
This though happened before the skin split, so the definition of raked hands might have changed since then.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

Maybe this will help. I played 632 hands last night with a vpip of 15.62 and 300 hundred counted towards bonus.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe this will help. I played 632 hands last night with a vpip of 15.62 and 300 hundred counted towards bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well. Looks like nothing changed. Why do they bother to change their e-mail template...

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why do they bother to change their e-mail template...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's because they changed the rake on $25 NL/PL so that it's possible for a player to have < $0.01 attributed in a hand, and either they don't want to credit those for bonuses or the system can't handle it.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
link?

edit: nevermind i see you say it's in an email....

double edit: im skeptical of the wording of that sentence that mentions "1 cent." smells fishy.

[/ QUOTE ]

just received email confirmation back from Party and Akimka speaks the truth.

party rake

bwana

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think contribution to rake means you can get cards and fold still

[/ QUOTE ]

It would appear that this is no longer the case.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

This is all conjecture on Party's wording - surely someone is clearing a bonus and can comment on their raked hand counter.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I have been clearing a bonus this week. Nothing seems to be different. I am pretty sure I am getting credit for hands that I fold preflop and contirbute nothing to the pot.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I'm thinking the actual outcome will be POSITIVE for us (given the post from TOMS). I'll bet that Party is sticking with Rake Share method and that they will concur that:

1) When you are dealt cards and you fold in a hand, you are PARTICIPATING.

2) Even NLHE rakes of .10 or greater (or .05 or greater when five or less are seated) will count toward your raked hand count.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking the actual outcome will be POSITIVE for us


[/ QUOTE ]

ummmmmmm. no. the only way it would be positive is if they dropped the raked hands for bonuses down SIGNFICANTLY which there's no way theyre doing that.

[ QUOTE ]
1) When you are dealt cards and you fold in a hand, you are PARTICIPATING.

[/ QUOTE ]

"A player is considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in that hand."

how do you interpret your quote from party's line? party says you must pay money for a hand to count. it's pretty cut and dry.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
this affects rakeback significantly then

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking the actual outcome will be POSITIVE for us


[/ QUOTE ]

ummmmmmm. no. the only way it would be positive is if they dropped the raked hands for bonuses down SIGNFICANTLY which there's no way theyre doing that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm here to help you understand my post.

If my interpretation is correct, that would mean that NLHE pots which are raked .10 would count toward your "raked hand count." This is positive when compared to a system which only counts pots raked over .25 toward your "raked hand count."


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1) When you are dealt cards and you fold in a hand, you are PARTICIPATING.

[/ QUOTE ]

"A player is considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in that hand."

how do you interpret your quote from party's line? party says you must pay money for a hand to count. it's pretty cut and dry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your interpretation of "cut and dry" does not mesh with the two other posts on this thread by people who are currently clearing a bonus at Party and who are finding that raked hands are accumulating as usual on pots where the player is folding pre-flop.

I take this more seriously than parsing the wording of Party's statement given their history of unclear writing.

My interpretation will change if/when Party changes how raked hands are accumulating OR if those who have posted evidence to the contrary of the initial post (and your assertion) are lying or mistaken.

I will be depositing for a Party bonus soon and will play some .5/1 hands. If the raked hand count is not counting hands folded pre-flop, I will add such evidence to this thread.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands). *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Mike Haven

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

Just checked my stats from last night to get a clearer picture. I played between 50 and 60 hands. I saw the flop 25% of the time and got credit for playing 45 raked hands. This shows that they did not change their policies. I made my deposit on Friday, before they made the changes. Would that matter?

I think this is incorrect
 

[ QUOTE ]
A raked hand is any hand in which a rake (house drop) is taken out of the pot.

A player is considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in that hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

This wording HAS NOT CHANGED. The last part of this quote has been on the "Rake Schedule Page" of the website for a Long time. It sets the requirement for a minimum pot of $2.00 at a full NL/PL ring game before the hand is counted as raked for bonus clearing purposes.

This has been explained here many times in the past.

---------------------------

UNLESS PARTY IS GOING TO SCREW US AGAIN, AND ACTUALLY MAKE THE TRANSITION TO CONTRIBUTED HANDS. At this point, nothing is outside the realm of possibility, but I think this is being taken out of context. As of last night, I was credited with raked hands without putting money in the pot.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]

"A player is considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in that hand."

Your interpretation of "cut and dry" does not mesh with the two other posts on this thread by people who are currently clearing a bonus at Party and who are finding that raked hands are accumulating as usual on pots where the player is folding pre-flop.

I take this more seriously than parsing the wording of Party's statement given their history of unclear writing.


[/ QUOTE ]

The writing is very clear; and the change is significant. The evidence that people are not yet seeing a change in count does not mean Party is not changing the rules, it simply means that they haven't implemented ( or have screwed up the implementation ). I would fully expect the effect of this wording to be experienced in a week or so.

Also, this will have an effect on rakeback because it will also change the way party figures the MGR. Why else are they now appearing willing to talk rakeback with affiliates; because they will be using this new language to pay less MGR to affiliates. Why less? because I would bet that the majority of "tight" players come via rakeback affiliates and "fish" go straight to party.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

They haven't changed anything. It has always been >.01 per player who was dealt cards. This says nothing about having to put money into the pot yourself to receive credit.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I'll buy it when they actually do it. If party figures MGR by participated hands (as they do currently), you HAVE contributed 1 cent in a .10c raked pot, even if you were only dealt cards, according to their system.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
They haven't changed anything. It has always been >.01 per player who was dealt cards. This says nothing about having to put money into the pot yourself to receive credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes!! People have to stop making a big deal out of this. I am pretty sure they haven't changed anything. You guys are getting confused by the wording.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I cleared my bonus on Sunday. My VPIP was around 10% and the hands counting toward the bonus was at 90% (O8). Nothing has changed.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
The writing is very clear; and the change is significant. The evidence that people are not yet seeing a change in count does not mean Party is not changing the rules, it simply means that they haven't implemented ( or have screwed up the implementation ). I would fully expect the effect of this wording to be experienced in a week or so.

Also, this will have an effect on rakeback because it will also change the way party figures the MGR. Why else are they now appearing willing to talk rakeback with affiliates; because they will be using this new language to pay less MGR to affiliates. Why less? because I would bet that the majority of "tight" players come via rakeback affiliates and "fish" go straight to party.
[/quote

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

You guys are panicking about nothing.


[ QUOTE ]


The writing is very clear; and the change is significant. The evidence that people are not yet seeing a change in count does not mean Party is not changing the rules,

[/ QUOTE ]


The writing is NOT clear.


"A player is considered to have played a raked hand if he or she has contributed 1 cent or more in rake in that hand."



In this case 'contributing' 1-cent in rake for that hand just means that you were involved in the hand and were responsible for 1-cent or more in rake.

It doesn't mean that you actually had to bet money into the pot on that specific hand. It means that you got credit for 1-cent 'contributed' (which another poster observed should actually be wored as 'attributed' when we discussed this very same thing in a different thread 2 days ago).


When you play 1,000 hands or something and it has X amount of rake over that stretch...then your affiliate is getting back 20% (or whatever) of "your contributed rake".
This is jhust how Party words it.


NEVER have they said that YOU actually have to bet money on that specific hand.
They just use the word 'contributed' to mean "a hand where you are receiving credit for the some of the rake."

Something like that anyway.
I'm not good at explaining some of these things so anyone with a better way of explaining it to all the panickers can feel free to chime-in.



You guys feel free to scan over the party-poker T&C's and read over whatever else you like and find something else to panic over.
"hey...I read that Partypoker cash-games are 'for entertainment purposes only'!!! OMG!! They're going to ban me if I play too much!!"
"hey....party said that THEY have the final-judgement on all decisions. So this means they can just decide to just change all their rules and take all my money whenever they want. They just said so in their rules!!!"

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I'm not a home, so I cannot check to be sure.

BUT.

I got a bonus offer of 30% up to 100. I went ahead and deposited, and have been working it off. But was VERY surprised at how slow it was going. I've probably 3 tabled for atleast 3 or 4 hours, and and only worked off around 200 or so?

I'll check my PT numbers vs. Party numbers when I get home.

Nick

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

So if this change is for real what does it mean? rocks will no longer leech off the LAGS? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
You guys are panicking about nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post is very reasonable Microbob. Thanks.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

Bob -- I appreciate the sentiment, but if I had said on Thursday that Party was gonna split into two networks, would you have believed me?

Beware, they have already shown a willingness to make drastic and somewhat underhanded moves without notice. They are going to be experiencing significant pressure from stockholders due to dropping revenues and stock prices. And many options will be examined.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

I've just cleared the party bonus, after reading this thread earlier today

4-tabled $25NL, 1128 hands played to get 700 raked. If anything it's even easier now than ever thanks to the 0.05 rake on $1 pots!

Mat

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bob -- I appreciate the sentiment, but if I had said on Thursday that Party was gonna split into two networks, would you have believed me?

Beware, they have already shown a willingness to make drastic and somewhat underhanded moves without notice. They are going to be experiencing significant pressure from stockholders due to dropping revenues and stock prices. And many options will be examined.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this thread was originally about what has HAPPENED, not conjecture or what "options might be examined."

What HAS happened has been a change in wording. This *MAY* be about a forthcoming change in raked hand tabulation to a contributed-pot definition. Or it instead *MAY* be a clarification so that NLHE rakes of .10 count as "raked hands" but NLHE rakes of .05 do NOT.

As of this moment, according to several on this thread, Party is continuing to tabulate raked hands in the same way as before -- and that method includes crediting a player for hands in which he folds pre-flop without putting money in the pot.

I have made it clear in my prior post that if/when I see actual evidence of a change in how Party is tabulating raked hands, then I will certainly defer to such evidence. At this moment, there is none.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]

Well, this thread was originally about what has HAPPENED, not conjecture or what "options might be examined."

What HAS happened has been a change in wording. This *MAY* be about a forthcoming change in raked hand tabulation to a contributed-pot definition. Or it instead *MAY* be a clarification so that NLHE rakes of .10 count as "raked hands" but NLHE rakes of .05 do NOT.

As of this moment, according to several on this thread, Party is continuing to tabulate raked hands in the same way as before -- and that method includes crediting a player for hands in which he folds pre-flop without putting money in the pot.

I have made it clear in my prior post that if/when I see actual evidence of a change in how Party is tabulating raked hands, then I will certainly defer to such evidence. At this moment, there is none.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually the original thing that had HAPPENED was supposedly a change in the definition of a raked hand; not a change in the counting of raked hands -- a change in the language. Notice the difference?

Company write text that reads a certain way for a reason -- and often are informed of how to write it by lawyers. Whether they are currently counting as contributed or not is irrelevant, they CAN do so at any point they want.

The more interesting thing is that some people are saying that this text has always read this way -- that means party has always stated that it was contributed hands but computed the count differently.

All I am saying is this -- if the text reads a particular way but things are done a different way, don't be suprised when it changes.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

Maybe it's just to cover for people who are clearing bonuses multitabling the Micro-Limit Beginner tables where a possible 10 people "PARTICIPATING" in a hand still account for <0.01 per person in rake...

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

for what it's worth, i wrote for clarification and this is what i got. i guess i need to learn to ask one question and leave it at that....

to party:
must a player actually put money in the pot in order for the hand to count as a raked hand? if I receive cards, fold my cards and the pot is raked does this count as a raked hand?

from party:
If a player just participates in a hand even if the cards are folded the hand is considered to be a raked hand by contributing 1 cent or more.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]

to party:
must a player actually put money in the pot in order for the hand to count as a raked hand? if I receive cards, fold my cards and the pot is raked does this count as a raked hand?

from party:
If a player just participates in a hand even if the cards are folded the hand is considered to be a raked hand by contributing 1 cent or more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, well that certainly clears it up.

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
that means party has always stated that it was contributed hands but computed the count differently.

[/ QUOTE ]


No.
what it means is that party's definition of 'contributed rake' on a hand has never been what you would think it might be.

'Contributing rake' on a hand means that I just played the hand.
'Contributing directly to the pot' would be different.

Something like that anyway.

I'm not saying that it's beyond Party to decide to change the rules by which players clear a bonus.
I'm saying that you guys are reading 'contributed rake' to ABSOLUTELY mean that the player must bet into the pot on that hand....and it just isn't how Party DEFINES it.


you play a hand and fold pre-flop.
The rake is $2 and there are 10 players.
Party says that your 'contributed rake' on that hand is $0.20.
THIS is oviously how party is defining 'contributed rake'.


If Party wants to change it in the future then that's up to them.
I'm saying that they have done NOTHING to indicate that they are changing it yet (or now).

People are simply misinterpreting what is meant by 'contributed rake' (because Party has a tough time clarifying specifically what they mean....which may have also gone into whatever loop-hole they used to get out of their agreement with the skins now that I think about it).

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

[ QUOTE ]
you play a hand and fold pre-flop.
The rake is $2 and there are 10 players.
Party says that your 'contributed rake' on that hand is $0.20.
THIS is oviously how party is defining 'contributed rake'.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct. The change in text was made to cover the situations where <$.01 was attributed to a player. Other than that, nothing has changed. If you are dealt into a hand, and the rake is $.10 or more (less in obvious situations), it will still count as a raked hand regardless if you fold preflop or not.

Enjoy!

Re: Party changed theit raked hand definiton (now participated hands).
 

Thanks Mike.

You may want to consider RE-changing the wording on the web-site for clarification.

Obviously there are A LOT of people who view the term 'contributed rake' to mean something OTHER than just playing the hand.

I don't blame people for seeing the word 'contributed' and thinking that this must somehow mean that they need to have contributed into the pot themselves for it to count.


This is the 2nd thread we have had on this confusing issue.
And I'm sure other players trying to figure it out are confused as to what constitutes a 'raked-hand' for bonus-clearing purposes because the wording is so vague and there is no carification given.


Thanks for clarifying it here for us.
But please consider clearing it up a bit better on the party web-site too for everyone else.