\"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

nd" is the new "should I fold AA PF" is the new "this phrase makes Adanthar want to sacrifice kittens to the Blood God to make it go away"

Please discuss.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

...and people saying "Putting your tourney life on the line" is annoying is the new "I'm better than you".

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

OMG dont risk your tourney life on the 3rd hand!!!

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

The fact that you can say that phrase and mean it means that I probably am, yes.

BTW, that last sentence is not meant to be sarcastic or demeaning, but if you don't get why that phrase is total nonsense, you are playing too weak tight.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

Agreed.

edit: though, not total nonsense, it's founded in something.. or atleast i just connect it to the thing mason posted recently, like how your value doesnt' double w/ a double up.. or how doubling your chips isn't as + as getting knocked out is -.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

You're missing the point.

Without getting into a big thing about this, I'm not arguing against the idea that "putting your tournament life on the line" is a cringe inducing phrase, I'm arguing that the biggest problem with 2+2 (which is nonetheless a great place) is not weak-tight statements, bad beat posts, two words answers or even blatant, immature flamers. The biggest problem is ego, so tone it down.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

You're kinda missing the point, too...ego or no ego (and I won't argue that I've got one), if this thread grows to a couple of pages, two things will happen:

1)it will hopefully go away
2)a bunch of people will learn something

I don't post threads because I want people to worship me or anything, dude.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

I really think you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction if you think adanthars ego is a problem on this board.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

In backgammon players often do suboptimal plays, since they want to complicate the position, since they are better than the opponent and want to reduce the luck factor. But very often both players do such suboptimal plays since they think they are better than the opponent, making it absurd.

I think the "I am not putting the tourney life on the line" is the equivalent in poker. An arrogant overestimation of skill difference.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

Ok, so I typed out a long post about why I think AK is a drawing hand. I never got around to posting it, so here it is.

--

I've seen some people on here recently critiquing the idea that AK is a drawing hand. In particular, this was being debated in the context of AK vs QQ. I became curious about this so I set out to see if it is true, and here's what I came up with.

AK is only not a drawing hand in the loosest sense. I've been trying out a bunch of different scenarios on PokerStove, and the fact is, AKs is a dog to every pair, all the way down to 22. The only time that it is not a dog to a pair is when it is playing against pocket twos with which it does not share a suit, and then, it has a .17% advantage over the 2s. Now, when I say a "dog," I mean that in the broadest terms possible. It is less than 3 percent behind a pair of fours. So, yes, AKs is essentially equivalent to a pair of 4s, but if you asked me my choice, I'd rather be all in with a pair of fours. I know it makes little difference, but with as much poker as many of us play, those little differences add up to a lot.

AKo is always a drawing hand against pocket pairs. It is about 5% behind a pair of 2s, 10% behind 77, and 13.5% behind QQ.

Back to AKs vs. QQ, assume that the players are not all in pre-flop. AKs is ahead of QQ whenever QQ is unimproved (about 88% of all flops) and AKs flops a flush, flush draw, or A/K. However, this happens less than 50% of the time (I think that it's about 45.77%). If my math is correct (and it may not be), this means that AKs is behind on about 60% of flops. AKs needs the turn and the river to get "even" (as in 53/47) odds with QQ. If AKs can only see the flop, it is likely to be behind QQ. It needs the turn and river to be close to even. It must "draw" to these two extra cards. Thus, it is a drawing hand. It does not rest on it's own laurels. It is dependent on the ability to see the entire board to get (almost) even odds with pocket pair.

Again, I considered AKs here instead of AKo, because AKo is even farther behind a pocket pair. 5% might not seem like a great deal to be behind a pair of twos, but that means that out of 100 pre flop all ins, AKo wins 47; 22 wins 53. With queens its 43:57. Which would you prefer? I'd rather be slightly ahead than slightly behind.

Will

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
AKo is always a drawing hand against pocket pairs. It is about 5% behind a pair of 2s, 10% behind 77, and 13.5% behind QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has opened my eyes!!! I wont overvalue AKs anymore. This should be a sticky.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

I am glad there were no sharp objects around me when i read this. The fishiest type of fish assumes you always have AK when they have 44. The second fishiest always assumes you dont have AQ/AJ/KQ when they have AK.

Seriously this all made me throw up in my mouth a little.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

I made what I think is a pretty good post about playing AK in SNG's a while ago. You might want to search for it.

To specifically address your post, the fact that it is a drawing hand is theoretically true but completely irrelevant. The reason is that if you play it correctly, you will be all in preflop regardless in any situation where that *is* relevant (you have < 10-12, or sometimes < 15-20 BB) and will be the one getting away from a second best hand/making the 44 make a tough decision/paid off when ahead when you have a deeper stack.

---

To add something relevant to this thread, exitonly is similarly correct that there is not 'nothing' to this phrase (it has a kernel of truth at the bottom somewhere), but anyone who has it flash in their head as they make a play, or somebody who posts serious advice with it, is playing very wrong. Yeah, AK is a drawing hand. So what, you're gonna limp it with 6 BB to see if you hit, or coldcall every time a LAG raises from the button?

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

I just played around with Pokerstove too...

apparantly, JJ is behind AA KK and QQ. And by a lot. Seriously, wow.
I'm pretty sure i just proved JJ = Drawing hand.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

nh

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just played around with Pokerstove too...

apparantly, JJ is behind AA KK and QQ. And by a lot. Seriously, wow.
I'm pretty sure i just proved JJ = Drawing hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL.

Funniest thing I've read all week

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

that logic is flawed because there are other combinations to consider when you have AK than just a pair. Plus, you're almost always getting the odds you need to make it a good play. Even against QQ all I need is (gets out calculator) 1.4:1 odds to about break even.. most of the time I'll have that with dead money in the pot or if he's going over the top of an initial raise

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]

Again, I considered AKs here instead of AKo, because AKo is even farther behind a pocket pair. 5% might not seem like a great deal to be behind a pair of twos, but that means that out of 100 pre flop all ins, AKo wins 47; 22 wins 53. With queens its 43:57. Which would you prefer? I'd rather be slightly ahead than slightly behind.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]

I may be a fish here but I'll take AK (suited or not) over 44 to push in with any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

You don't know what your opponent holds when you push in. With 44 you're basically 53/47 or so against any unpaired hand but a huge underdog to any pair bigger than 5's.

With AK you're only a big underdog against two hands, a big favorite against any unpaired hand, and a slight dog against any pair lower than Kings.

Call it what you want, it wins alot of pots.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

So you would put your ENTIRE TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE with a DRAWING HAND ?!?! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I typed out a long post about why I think AK is a drawing hand. I never got around to posting it, so here it is.

--

I've seen some people on here recently critiquing the idea that AK is a drawing hand. In particular, this was being debated in the context of AK vs QQ. I became curious about this so I set out to see if it is true, and here's what I came up with.

AK is only not a drawing hand in the loosest sense. I've been trying out a bunch of different scenarios on PokerStove, and the fact is, AKs is a dog to every pair, all the way down to 22. The only time that it is not a dog to a pair is when it is playing against pocket twos with which it does not share a suit, and then, it has a .17% advantage over the 2s. Now, when I say a "dog," I mean that in the broadest terms possible. It is less than 3 percent behind a pair of fours. So, yes, AKs is essentially equivalent to a pair of 4s, but if you asked me my choice, I'd rather be all in with a pair of fours. I know it makes little difference, but with as much poker as many of us play, those little differences add up to a lot.

AKo is always a drawing hand against pocket pairs. It is about 5% behind a pair of 2s, 10% behind 77, and 13.5% behind QQ.

Back to AKs vs. QQ, assume that the players are not all in pre-flop. AKs is ahead of QQ whenever QQ is unimproved (about 88% of all flops) and AKs flops a flush, flush draw, or A/K. However, this happens less than 50% of the time (I think that it's about 45.77%). If my math is correct (and it may not be), this means that AKs is behind on about 60% of flops. AKs needs the turn and the river to get "even" (as in 53/47) odds with QQ. If AKs can only see the flop, it is likely to be behind QQ. It needs the turn and river to be close to even. It must "draw" to these two extra cards. Thus, it is a drawing hand. It does not rest on it's own laurels. It is dependent on the ability to see the entire board to get (almost) even odds with pocket pair.

Again, I considered AKs here instead of AKo, because AKo is even farther behind a pocket pair. 5% might not seem like a great deal to be behind a pair of twos, but that means that out of 100 pre flop all ins, AKo wins 47; 22 wins 53. With queens its 43:57. Which would you prefer? I'd rather be slightly ahead than slightly behind.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]

sweet jesus, is this a joke?

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

I don't really agree with the statement that AK is just as good as 44, here's my reasoning.

Let's see what hands you're a huge dog with if you hold 44:
55, 66, 77, 88, 99, TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA

Let's see what hands you're a huge dog with if you hold AK:
AA, KK


Unless you have a strong read it's a coin flip which is impossible it's just a guessing game, would you rather be a slight dog to PP's with lil chance of being dominated, or would you rather have a slight advantage with a huge chance of being dominated?

I think QQ is where the line is broken, since they're both dominated by the same hands, so I'd rather have QQ there, but in any scenario JJ down to 22 vs AK I'd rather have the AK based on the simple fact that the chance I could be dominated is smaller

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you would put your ENTIRE TOURNAMENT LIFE ON THE LINE with a DRAWING HAND ?!?! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

Maybe we should make a list and put it in the fact.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]


Again, I considered AKs here instead of AKo, because AKo is even farther behind a pocket pair. 5% might not seem like a great deal to be behind a pair of twos, but that means that out of 100 pre flop all ins, AKo wins 47; 22 wins 53. With queens its 43:57. Which would you prefer? I'd rather be slightly ahead than slightly behind.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]I think I just played a hand against this guy:

Seat 1: tejas66 (1380 in chips)
Seat 2: River Guide (3280 in chips)
Seat 3: jcm4ccc (1420 in chips)
Seat 4: esmaret (4480 in chips)
Seat 5: sananto (1170 in chips)
Seat 6: MEMIKET (870 in chips)
Seat 7: Rob 1973 (2200 in chips)
Seat 8: BiggieRay (3610 in chips)
sananto: posts small blind 10
MEMIKET: posts big blind 20

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jcm4ccc As Ad]
Rob 1973: calls 20
BiggieRay: folds
tejas66: folds
River Guide: folds
jcm4ccc: raises 60 to 80
esmaret: folds
sananto: folds
MEMIKET: raises 60 to 140
Rob 1973: calls 120
jcm4ccc: raises 260 to 400
MEMIKET: raises 260 to 660
Rob 1973: folds
jcm4ccc: raises 760 to 1420 and is all-in
MEMIKET: calls 210 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd Qc]
*** TURN *** [8d Jd Qc] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd Qc 4h] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MEMIKET: shows [3c 3d] (a pair of Threes)
jcm4ccc: shows [As Ad] (a pair of Aces)
jcm4ccc collected 1890 from pot

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

Looks like its safe to say some players here are + with AK while others are -....im in the minus column including 0-5 last night in the 40k (including here where it lost to 910 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...amp;vc=1)...now 0-6 after busting out of the local b&m tourny this morning with AK vs 1010....and lest i forget pokertracker says im winning with AK at a 28% clip, up from 23% a few months ago i might add.. and just a guesstimate but i'd think 80% of these are all-ins when either im short stacked or my opponent is. and a lot of these wins are when i flop an A or K and the pot is folded to me after a bet..so my percentage has got to be sickening if i looked at just the hands that go to the river

But then again i am the worst player on this site and if i was better im sure it would hit more often [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

Before anyone goes getting sick, let me clarify what I meant. I simply meant that based on the math, AK is a drawing hand. I didn't say that I'd rather play a 22-JJ than AK. I simply said that heads up AK vs PP, PPs have the advantage. When discussing AK being a drawing hand or not, what should I compare it to except those hands that are accepted as non-drawing hands? Otherwise, we could argue that AQ is not a drawing hand, unless it's up against any PP or AK, and KQ is a non drawing hand unless up against an Ace or PP.

In response to Exit's post yes JJ is behind AA-QQ, but it doesn't mean that its a drawing hand. It is only behind 3 hands. AK is significantly behind 2 hands and moderately to slightly behind 12 more. I am calling AK a drawing hand because it is mathematically less likely to win a heads up showdown than aany pocket pair. Thus, yes, heads up, all in, with AK vs PP, give me the PP, but otherwise (with 4+ players), I'd rather have AK. In fact, while writing this I just folded 44 to a 3x UTG raise. I can promise that I wouldn't have folded AK. I suppose the real question is how to define a drawing hand. How many hands can a hand be behind without be considered a drawing hand, and how behind can it be? It seems that most people here want to argue that it can be a little bit behind PPs, as long as it is ahead of every non PP. I'd say that because it is behind the PPs (which I'm assuming most consider non-drawing hands because they're already pairs), it's a drawing hand. It's a better hand, but it's a drawing one. An important point that I made in my initial post is that AK needs to see the entire board to be ahead of a PP. To me, this is key to it's being a drawing hand. It's way behind a PP if it only sees the flop.

Will

Note: please let me say again, that I didn't say AK is worse than pocket pairs. I said that it's a drawing hand and PPs are made hands. Made hands are not necessarily better than drawing hands.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I typed out a long post about why I think AK is a drawing hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK as a drawing hand is usually associated with deep money. On shallow money, it is better to view it as a made hand.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like its safe to say some players here are + with AK while others are -....im in the minus column including 0-5 last night in the 40k (including here where it lost to 910 http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...amp;vc=1)...now 0-6 after busting out of the local b&m tourny this morning with AK vs 1010....and lest i forget pokertracker says im winning with AK at a 28% clip, up from 23% a few months ago i might add.. and just a guesstimate but i'd think 80% of these are all-ins when either im short stacked or my opponent is. and a lot of these wins are when i flop an A or K and the pot is folded to me after a bet..so my percentage has got to be sickening if i looked at just the hands that go to the river

But then again i am the worst player on this site and if i was better im sure it would hit more often [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've lost money playing AK over a large sample, you're a very bad poker player.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I just played a hand against this guy

[/ QUOTE ]

hilarious

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

"If you've lost money playing AK over a large sample, you're a very bad poker player. "

I think i made both those points already .

but isnt the whole point of these AK discussions whether its plus+ ev to call with AK and then go to the river with it?? so tell me how being a good player has anything whatsoever to do with it. you have AK your opponent has ?/? you both pull the trigger and the results come out...in those situations i have lost A LOT more than i have won. not nearly as bad a % at Party ov 2000+ hands as i have at Stars ov1500+ hands but bad none the less.
i also stated that when playing them as a regular hand and betting the flop when they improved i had the vast majority of my wins with them..

but i still dont understand where the "skill" comes into play when your calling or going all-in with them, they either improve, hold up or you lose. in todays discussion about pckt 4's, what differance does it make if you call down the 4's with AK or 56? if you dont get help from the board you lose if you do you win...what are you saying ? that you are so much better than me that you only call with them when you know the board will improve them?? damn no wonder you win so much and im a donk....

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
2000+ hands
1500+ hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Add a zero to both of those and your results will probably, but not necessarily, matter

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
2000+ hands
1500+ hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Add a zero to both of those and your results will probably, but not necessarily, matter

[/ QUOTE ]

Put a one and two zeroes in front of that and we've got a deal.

Guy who I made fun of- Sorry, man. I didn't read your post in full.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
but isnt the whole point of these AK discussions whether its plus+ ev to call with AK and then go to the river with it?? so tell me how being a good player has anything whatsoever to do with it. you have AK your opponent has ?/? you both pull the trigger and the results come out...in those situations i have lost A LOT more than i have won.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are probably over playing it on deep money preflop.

You may not be skilled at recognising when to call a preflop allin with AK, and when to fold.

You may have just ran really bad.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

I can't believe I'm even taking the time to post on this subject, but here goes...

The most common pattern for poker hands (more so in limit than in no-limit, but common there, too) is where one guy has the better hand (the "made hand") and the other guy has the hand that needs some help (the "drawing hand"). Whether AK is the "made hand" or the "drawing hand" purely depends on what your opponent has. If he has AJ, AK is a made hand. You don't need to hit anything to beat him. He's drawing. If your opponent has 44, AK is a "drawing hand," but only for that hand. The very next hand you could be up against AQ and AK wouldn't be a drawing hand.

Poker is a game of incomplete information. AK isn't completely a drawing hand, but it isn't completely not one.

And to my opponents... Keep folding it.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Again, I considered AKs here instead of AKo, because AKo is even farther behind a pocket pair. 5% might not seem like a great deal to be behind a pair of twos, but that means that out of 100 pre flop all ins, AKo wins 47; 22 wins 53. With queens its 43:57. Which would you prefer? I'd rather be slightly ahead than slightly behind.

Will

[/ QUOTE ]I think I just played a hand against this guy:

Seat 1: tejas66 (1380 in chips)
Seat 2: River Guide (3280 in chips)
Seat 3: jcm4ccc (1420 in chips)
Seat 4: esmaret (4480 in chips)
Seat 5: sananto (1170 in chips)
Seat 6: MEMIKET (870 in chips)
Seat 7: Rob 1973 (2200 in chips)
Seat 8: BiggieRay (3610 in chips)
sananto: posts small blind 10
MEMIKET: posts big blind 20

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jcm4ccc As Ad]
Rob 1973: calls 20
BiggieRay: folds
tejas66: folds
River Guide: folds
jcm4ccc: raises 60 to 80
esmaret: folds
sananto: folds
MEMIKET: raises 60 to 140
Rob 1973: calls 120
jcm4ccc: raises 260 to 400
MEMIKET: raises 260 to 660
Rob 1973: folds
jcm4ccc: raises 760 to 1420 and is all-in
MEMIKET: calls 210 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [8d Jd Qc]
*** TURN *** [8d Jd Qc] [4h]
*** RIVER *** [8d Jd Qc 4h] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
MEMIKET: shows [3c 3d] (a pair of Threes)
jcm4ccc: shows [As Ad] (a pair of Aces)
jcm4ccc collected 1890 from pot

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, that wasn't me. I would have folded the 3s. However, I'm guessing that if you were holding AKs and the other guy was holding AA, you would have called and lost (I'm not saying that I wouldn't have called). Oh, and your example doesn't work because AKs is actually farther behind AA than 33 is. You would be better off with the 33 than AKs here.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawing ha
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nope, that wasn't me. I would have folded the 3s. However, I'm guessing that if you were holding AKs and the other guy was holding AA, you would have called and lost (I'm not saying that I wouldn't have called). Oh, and your example doesn't work because AKs is actually farther behind AA than 33 is. You would be better off with the 33 than AKs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because he would most likely have lost exactly 140 with both hands.

Seriously, stop now, you're making it worse.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're kinda missing the point, too...ego or no ego (and I won't argue that I've got one), if this thread grows to a couple of pages, two things will happen:

1)it will hopefully go away
2)a bunch of people will learn something

I don't post threads because I want people to worship me or anything, dude.

[/ QUOTE ]


To quote Donald Trump:

Show me a man with no ego and i'll show you a BIG LOSER.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't believe I'm even taking the time to post on this subject, but here goes...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe anybody would ever start a post like this. Thank you poker god for posting. All should hail you.

[ QUOTE ]
To quote Donald Trump:

Show me a man with no ego and i'll show you a BIG LOSER.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no ego and I think I scrape by but overall i will become a loser which inturn will make me happy.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
Show me a man with no ego and i'll show you a BIG LOSER.

[/ QUOTE ]

This says more about trump than it does about anything else. The quote is the biggest load of bollocks I've read, but can understand why people like Trump would think that.

Re: \"Putting your tourney life on the line\" is the new \"AK is a drawin
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Show me a man with no ego and i'll show you a BIG LOSER.

[/ QUOTE ]

This says more about trump than it does about anything else. The quote is the biggest load of bollocks I've read, but can understand why people like Trump would think that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, as its from Trump it should be taken as such.

But I think there is a ton of merit there. People show 'ego' in different ways. It isn't always by brandishing their e-penis at every opportunity. Though IMO a healthy dose of it is an asset in many ways.